Discussion:
Slide your trailer tandems, even when empty!
(too old to reply)
tscottme
2004-04-21 12:33:19 UTC
Permalink
I didn't realize how many truck drivers don't know this, but I'd say
over half don't. Many states have various maximum length laws for
trailers. These laws are sometimes called "kingpin" or incorrectly
called "bridge laws". Anyway, in many, if not most states, when pulling
a 53 foot trailer you may *not* travel with the trailer tandems slid to
the rear of the trailer, even if empty or lightly loaded.

The states have various particular limits. TN uses 41 feet between
kingpin and middle of set of tandems, which is similar to some other
states. Some states measure from the nose of the trailer and some
states use other locations on the tandems. But regardless of the exact
distance the state uses or exactly how they measure it, many drivers
don't seem to even notice where the tandems are set.

Some or many customers that have sunken docks, where the rear of the
trailer is much lower than the front of the trailer when it is backed
into a door, require that trailer tandems be slid fully to the rear so
the trailer will not be below the dock plate during loading/unloading.
One driver after another, regardless of years of experience, type of
experience, or even certainty of crossing DOT scales seems not to bother
with sliding these tandems back into a legal position before getting on
the road.

Let me be clear, if the state you are driving in has a maximum "kingpin
law", it is illegal to pull a 53 foot trailer, even empty, on the road
with tandems at the rear of the trailer or anywhere beyond that maximum
distance. If you are caught with tandems at the rear in TN, it is a $75
fine and the driver, not the trucking company or customer, is
responsible.

I think 2 things explains why this happens to so many drivers of such
varied experience and backgrounds: 1) many OTR drivers only are
concerned with getting their axle weights legal, and this almost always
keeps the tandems near or ahead of all but the most restrictive lengths
without requiring a check for this "kingpin" limit. Every single driver
I have pointed out that they have just pulled a trailer with their
tandems set illegally responds "the trailer is empty, or the trailer is
under X thousand pounds." and 2) an alarming number of drivers I see
perform no inspection on the trailer before they put it on the road.
The majority of drivers I see every day hook to a trailer, connect their
lines, raise the landing gear, close the doors and take off. If you
follow that "procedure" and the trailer last came out of a sunken dock,
you are likely to pull an illegal trailer. God help you if you didn't
notice there were Hazmat placards on that empty trailer.

Some states may allow you to slide the tandems forward and be on your
way, if your axle weights are OK. But, TN will give you the ticket even
if you can slide the tandems and weight was never an issue.

Slide your tandems before you get on the road, even if the trailer is
empty.

An easy way to verify you are at or ahead of the 41 foot
kingpin-to-middle-of-tandem position is to note the position of the rear
mudflap on the tandem and the "tie-back" device which secures the
trailer door open. If the mudflap is about a foot forward of either the
forward edge of the open trailer door or the latch on the bottom rail of
the trailer which holds the trailer door open, you are pretty close to
the 41 foot mark. Even though my company tries to mark all of its
trailers with an unlabeled black mark at the 41 foot mark, I notice that
the mark is incorrectly located on about 1/3 of our trailers, half being
to far forward and half to far back. I'm not sure that obeying a
company's mark on the trailer will absolve the driver of a fine for
being over-length. I'd rather not bet my pay on that question.

--
Scott
--------
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall
pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. John
F Kennedy
r***@mnsi.net
2004-04-21 16:35:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by tscottme
I didn't realize how many truck drivers don't know this, but I'd say
over half don't. Many states have various maximum length laws for
trailers. These laws are sometimes called "kingpin" or incorrectly
called "bridge laws". Anyway, in many, if not most states, when pulling
a 53 foot trailer you may *not* travel with the trailer tandems slid to
the rear of the trailer, even if empty or lightly loaded.
<some snippage>

How timely. :-) Just last Friday I had an exasperating situation that involved
exactly what you speak of. Dispatch gave me a 44,000# load to take from Ontario
to Ohio, and the previous driver had scaled it before dropping it in the yard.
Now, we have our company trailers, and use some from other companies that we have
partnerships with. The company whose trailer I was hooking to has mostly 48's, but
have been getting some 53's in the last little while. I'll admit that I'm not great
at eyeballing an unmarked trailer and instantly knowing the dimensions - but as I
was doing my PTI, something didn't look quite right. I dragged it beside one of our
53's, and sure enough, it matched up. And the tandems were all the way to the back. :-\
That's how the driver scaled it, and I had a hell of a time trying to explain to
dispatch why I had to rescale the load - they either couldn't grasp the simple concept
that the weights were now shifted (never mind that the original scale ticket showed 400#
over on the steers), or were just playing dumb in the hopes of getting me to just hit
the highway.
Post by tscottme
God help you if you didn't
notice there were Hazmat placards on that empty trailer.
That was the week before. :-) Auto parts on the trailer, with those annoying *stickers*
all the way around (Class 9, IIRC). Those things are a bear to remove, but the few times
I've been in a pinch, I've at least covered with duct tape what I couldn't remove, and
then notified the garage when arriving at the yard.

I'll also admit that I have a bad habit of "eyeballing" my tandem placement after having to
slide them to the rear as you've mentioned (we bump a lot of those docks). I think I've
gotten pretty good at my guesstimations, but I'll take any good tips I can. Thanks!

Christopher
Dave R
2004-04-22 16:33:22 UTC
Permalink
I don't know Scott about out there in TN but out west we've always known it
as the bridge law. Could be slang???
Post by r***@mnsi.net
Post by tscottme
I didn't realize how many truck drivers don't know this, but I'd say
over half don't. Many states have various maximum length laws for
trailers. These laws are sometimes called "kingpin" or incorrectly
called "bridge laws". Anyway, in many, if not most states, when pulling
a 53 foot trailer you may *not* travel with the trailer tandems slid to
the rear of the trailer, even if empty or lightly loaded.
<some snippage>
How timely. :-) Just last Friday I had an exasperating situation that involved
exactly what you speak of. Dispatch gave me a 44,000# load to take from Ontario
to Ohio, and the previous driver had scaled it before dropping it in the yard.
Now, we have our company trailers, and use some from other companies that we have
partnerships with. The company whose trailer I was hooking to has mostly 48's, but
have been getting some 53's in the last little while. I'll admit that I'm not great
at eyeballing an unmarked trailer and instantly knowing the dimensions - but as I
was doing my PTI, something didn't look quite right. I dragged it beside one of our
53's, and sure enough, it matched up. And the tandems were all the way to the back. :-\
That's how the driver scaled it, and I had a hell of a time trying to explain to
dispatch why I had to rescale the load - they either couldn't grasp the simple concept
that the weights were now shifted (never mind that the original scale ticket showed 400#
over on the steers), or were just playing dumb in the hopes of getting me to just hit
the highway.
Post by tscottme
God help you if you didn't
notice there were Hazmat placards on that empty trailer.
That was the week before. :-) Auto parts on the trailer, with those annoying *stickers*
all the way around (Class 9, IIRC). Those things are a bear to remove, but the few times
I've been in a pinch, I've at least covered with duct tape what I couldn't remove, and
then notified the garage when arriving at the yard.
I'll also admit that I have a bad habit of "eyeballing" my tandem placement after having to
slide them to the rear as you've mentioned (we bump a lot of those docks). I think I've
gotten pretty good at my guesstimations, but I'll take any good tips I can. Thanks!
Christopher
Ragtop
2004-04-24 06:06:58 UTC
Permalink
If you look at the rules and regs they are called "bridge laws".The reason
being is that the distance from points of measurement are considered
spans,as in a bridge span. Almost all of them do use the kingpin as a
starting point for the measurement but there is usually just two termination
points. One is the center of the axle set the other is the center of the
rear axle. If you want to know what the distances are and where to measure
to for each state the Rand McNally Truckers Map has them all listed in the
front.
--
Ragtop
Post by Dave R
I don't know Scott about out there in TN but out west we've always known it
as the bridge law. Could be slang???
Post by r***@mnsi.net
Post by tscottme
I didn't realize how many truck drivers don't know this, but I'd say
over half don't. Many states have various maximum length laws for
trailers. These laws are sometimes called "kingpin" or incorrectly
called "bridge laws". Anyway, in many, if not most states, when pulling
a 53 foot trailer you may *not* travel with the trailer tandems slid to
the rear of the trailer, even if empty or lightly loaded.
<some snippage>
How timely. :-) Just last Friday I had an exasperating situation that
involved
Post by r***@mnsi.net
exactly what you speak of. Dispatch gave me a 44,000# load to take from
Ontario
Post by r***@mnsi.net
to Ohio, and the previous driver had scaled it before dropping it in the
yard.
Post by r***@mnsi.net
Now, we have our company trailers, and use some from other companies
that
Post by Dave R
we have
Post by r***@mnsi.net
partnerships with. The company whose trailer I was hooking to has mostly
48's, but
Post by r***@mnsi.net
have been getting some 53's in the last little while. I'll admit that
I'm
Post by Dave R
not great
Post by r***@mnsi.net
at eyeballing an unmarked trailer and instantly knowing the dimensions -
but as I
Post by r***@mnsi.net
was doing my PTI, something didn't look quite right. I dragged it beside
one of our
Post by r***@mnsi.net
53's, and sure enough, it matched up. And the tandems were all the way
to
Post by Dave R
the back. :-\
Post by r***@mnsi.net
That's how the driver scaled it, and I had a hell of a time trying to
explain to
Post by r***@mnsi.net
dispatch why I had to rescale the load - they either couldn't grasp the
simple concept
Post by r***@mnsi.net
that the weights were now shifted (never mind that the original scale
ticket showed 400#
Post by r***@mnsi.net
over on the steers), or were just playing dumb in the hopes of getting
me
Post by Dave R
to just hit
Post by r***@mnsi.net
the highway.
Post by tscottme
God help you if you didn't
notice there were Hazmat placards on that empty trailer.
That was the week before. :-) Auto parts on the trailer, with those
annoying *stickers*
Post by r***@mnsi.net
all the way around (Class 9, IIRC). Those things are a bear to remove,
but
Post by Dave R
the few times
Post by r***@mnsi.net
I've been in a pinch, I've at least covered with duct tape what I
couldn't
Post by Dave R
remove, and
Post by r***@mnsi.net
then notified the garage when arriving at the yard.
I'll also admit that I have a bad habit of "eyeballing" my tandem
placement after having to
Post by r***@mnsi.net
slide them to the rear as you've mentioned (we bump a lot of those
docks).
Post by Dave R
I think I've
Post by r***@mnsi.net
gotten pretty good at my guesstimations, but I'll take any good tips I
can. Thanks!
Post by r***@mnsi.net
Christopher
gunslinger
2004-04-24 10:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@mnsi.net
I'm
Post by r***@mnsi.net
not great
Post by r***@mnsi.net
at eyeballing an unmarked trailer and instantly knowing the dimensions -
but as I
Post by r***@mnsi.net
was doing my PTI, something didn't look quite right.
Good job! Trust your instincts when something doesn't "look right" or
even "feel right". That hunch is your brain's way of telling you that
you have missed something, but just haven't consciously recognized it
yet.
Post by r***@mnsi.net
Post by r***@mnsi.net
Post by r***@mnsi.net
I'll also admit that I have a bad habit of "eyeballing" my tandem
placement after having to
Post by r***@mnsi.net
slide them to the rear as you've mentioned (we bump a lot of those
docks).
Post by r***@mnsi.net
I think I've
Post by r***@mnsi.net
gotten pretty good at my guesstimations, but I'll take any good tips I
can. Thanks!
I pace the distance off when sliding the tandems. I pull everything
from pups, to 45, 48, 53, and even the occasional 57 foot trailer -
and even the rare oddball like a 42-footer. The local guys tend to
slide the tandems all the way up for maneuverability, but they never
scale a load - and besides, it usually rides like crap that way. For
me, a standard "pace" - one step with each leg - will average 5 feet.
I can pace a distance and be within a couple inches most every time,
on reasonable level ground. Measure your pace! And then practice
pacing distance. It's easy if you just use a known distance, like a
trailer-length: you count the paces, and divide the distance by the
paces to get YOUR pace length. After a few times, you will KNOW what
your pace length is, and be able to pretty accurately measure the
"bridge length".
FWIW, a bridge length citation is likely to be more than a weight
citation. The only time I ever got one was long ago in SC, and it was
kinda strange. I had picked up an empty 53-foot trailer, and missed
the fact that someone had pulled the pins on the tandems [Note to
self: check tandem pins!!!]. Went into the scales, and when I braked
down, the tandems slid backwards, went BOOOOMM!!!!, and let out a huge
cloud of smoke. Of course, the scale master pulled me aside, and asked
"What the hell was that all about?". I could only answer "Beats
me....!". And by the time I realized what had in fact happened, he
already had that $150 ticket written out for overlength. Oh well.....


__--Gunslinger--__


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Xavier Onassis
2004-04-24 16:11:52 UTC
Permalink
I've gotten one of those TN tickets, several years ago. I cost me more that
$150 but I was loaded at the time. I'm sure it is even more now.

When I have to back in at a sunken dock with tandems in the rearmost
position I disconnect the blue air line from trailer and leave the pins on
the tandems released. This way the tandems don't creep forward when I tap
the brakes before hitting the dock AND the next driver doesn't have to fight
the tandem pins to put them in a legal position.
Post by tscottme
I didn't realize how many truck drivers don't know this, but I'd say
over half don't. Many states have various maximum length laws for
trailers. These laws are sometimes called "kingpin" or incorrectly
called "bridge laws". Anyway, in many, if not most states, when pulling
a 53 foot trailer you may *not* travel with the trailer tandems slid to
the rear of the trailer, even if empty or lightly loaded.
The states have various particular limits. TN uses 41 feet between
kingpin and middle of set of tandems, which is similar to some other
states. Some states measure from the nose of the trailer and some
states use other locations on the tandems. But regardless of the exact
distance the state uses or exactly how they measure it, many drivers
don't seem to even notice where the tandems are set.
Some or many customers that have sunken docks, where the rear of the
trailer is much lower than the front of the trailer when it is backed
into a door, require that trailer tandems be slid fully to the rear so
the trailer will not be below the dock plate during loading/unloading.
One driver after another, regardless of years of experience, type of
experience, or even certainty of crossing DOT scales seems not to bother
with sliding these tandems back into a legal position before getting on
the road.
Let me be clear, if the state you are driving in has a maximum "kingpin
law", it is illegal to pull a 53 foot trailer, even empty, on the road
with tandems at the rear of the trailer or anywhere beyond that maximum
distance. If you are caught with tandems at the rear in TN, it is a $75
fine and the driver, not the trucking company or customer, is
responsible.
I think 2 things explains why this happens to so many drivers of such
varied experience and backgrounds: 1) many OTR drivers only are
concerned with getting their axle weights legal, and this almost always
keeps the tandems near or ahead of all but the most restrictive lengths
without requiring a check for this "kingpin" limit. Every single driver
I have pointed out that they have just pulled a trailer with their
tandems set illegally responds "the trailer is empty, or the trailer is
under X thousand pounds." and 2) an alarming number of drivers I see
perform no inspection on the trailer before they put it on the road.
The majority of drivers I see every day hook to a trailer, connect their
lines, raise the landing gear, close the doors and take off. If you
follow that "procedure" and the trailer last came out of a sunken dock,
you are likely to pull an illegal trailer. God help you if you didn't
notice there were Hazmat placards on that empty trailer.
Some states may allow you to slide the tandems forward and be on your
way, if your axle weights are OK. But, TN will give you the ticket even
if you can slide the tandems and weight was never an issue.
Slide your tandems before you get on the road, even if the trailer is
empty.
An easy way to verify you are at or ahead of the 41 foot
kingpin-to-middle-of-tandem position is to note the position of the rear
mudflap on the tandem and the "tie-back" device which secures the
trailer door open. If the mudflap is about a foot forward of either the
forward edge of the open trailer door or the latch on the bottom rail of
the trailer which holds the trailer door open, you are pretty close to
the 41 foot mark. Even though my company tries to mark all of its
trailers with an unlabeled black mark at the 41 foot mark, I notice that
the mark is incorrectly located on about 1/3 of our trailers, half being
to far forward and half to far back. I'm not sure that obeying a
company's mark on the trailer will absolve the driver of a fine for
being over-length. I'd rather not bet my pay on that question.
--
Scott
--------
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall
pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. John
F Kennedy
rainyday128
2004-04-25 02:19:00 UTC
Permalink
The rationale comes from the request for 53's, soon after states were
required by the feds to allow 48's. So, many of them say, OK, we'll
allow 53's, but only with this 41' kingpin dimension so they don't
offtrack any more than a 48. Problem is, like you say, there is no
consistency as to how the 41' kingpin is measured. And then if you
have a water level load out to the back of the trailer, there's no way
you can scale legal, because you'll be over on the trailer with the
tandem slid up like that.

California is one of those states. And last time I was in L.A., I saw
a sign on a tight exit that said something like "35' kingpin dimension
max". (I thought that was a good sign -- I've gotten into tight places
by mistake that there should have been a warning sign like that).
Roger Shoaf
2004-04-25 04:36:08 UTC
Permalink
When I was driving we only had 2 kinds of 53 foot trailers so I made a note
of the hole position for each to comply with CA 40 foot rule and also I made
a note of the approximate weight shift per hole and taped these notes on the
inside of my log book cover.

I also made a note of the fuel tank weight distribution between the drives
and the steers so I wouldn't be surprised when fueling.

But face it there are many drivers that have a hard time understanding
things. How many times do you see someone pumping fistfuls of quarters into
a video game to play digital solitaire when you can pick up a deck of cards
and play till you wear the spots off.
--
Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.
Post by tscottme
I didn't realize how many truck drivers don't know this, but I'd say
over half don't. Many states have various maximum length laws for
trailers. These laws are sometimes called "kingpin" or incorrectly
called "bridge laws". Anyway, in many, if not most states, when pulling
a 53 foot trailer you may *not* travel with the trailer tandems slid to
the rear of the trailer, even if empty or lightly loaded.
The states have various particular limits. TN uses 41 feet between
kingpin and middle of set of tandems, which is similar to some other
states. Some states measure from the nose of the trailer and some
states use other locations on the tandems. But regardless of the exact
distance the state uses or exactly how they measure it, many drivers
don't seem to even notice where the tandems are set.
Some or many customers that have sunken docks, where the rear of the
trailer is much lower than the front of the trailer when it is backed
into a door, require that trailer tandems be slid fully to the rear so
the trailer will not be below the dock plate during loading/unloading.
One driver after another, regardless of years of experience, type of
experience, or even certainty of crossing DOT scales seems not to bother
with sliding these tandems back into a legal position before getting on
the road.
Let me be clear, if the state you are driving in has a maximum "kingpin
law", it is illegal to pull a 53 foot trailer, even empty, on the road
with tandems at the rear of the trailer or anywhere beyond that maximum
distance. If you are caught with tandems at the rear in TN, it is a $75
fine and the driver, not the trucking company or customer, is
responsible.
I think 2 things explains why this happens to so many drivers of such
varied experience and backgrounds: 1) many OTR drivers only are
concerned with getting their axle weights legal, and this almost always
keeps the tandems near or ahead of all but the most restrictive lengths
without requiring a check for this "kingpin" limit. Every single driver
I have pointed out that they have just pulled a trailer with their
tandems set illegally responds "the trailer is empty, or the trailer is
under X thousand pounds." and 2) an alarming number of drivers I see
perform no inspection on the trailer before they put it on the road.
The majority of drivers I see every day hook to a trailer, connect their
lines, raise the landing gear, close the doors and take off. If you
follow that "procedure" and the trailer last came out of a sunken dock,
you are likely to pull an illegal trailer. God help you if you didn't
notice there were Hazmat placards on that empty trailer.
Some states may allow you to slide the tandems forward and be on your
way, if your axle weights are OK. But, TN will give you the ticket even
if you can slide the tandems and weight was never an issue.
Slide your tandems before you get on the road, even if the trailer is
empty.
An easy way to verify you are at or ahead of the 41 foot
kingpin-to-middle-of-tandem position is to note the position of the rear
mudflap on the tandem and the "tie-back" device which secures the
trailer door open. If the mudflap is about a foot forward of either the
forward edge of the open trailer door or the latch on the bottom rail of
the trailer which holds the trailer door open, you are pretty close to
the 41 foot mark. Even though my company tries to mark all of its
trailers with an unlabeled black mark at the 41 foot mark, I notice that
the mark is incorrectly located on about 1/3 of our trailers, half being
to far forward and half to far back. I'm not sure that obeying a
company's mark on the trailer will absolve the driver of a fine for
being over-length. I'd rather not bet my pay on that question.
--
Scott
--------
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall
pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. John
F Kennedy
FreightMag
2004-04-26 18:19:46 UTC
Permalink
Go to www.clickloads.com and search the MASTER CARRIER DATABASE, it contains
all licensed carriers & brokers and has free load searching
Brian Smith
2004-04-26 19:36:41 UTC
Permalink
"FreightMag" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@mb-m27.aol.com...

One commercial a day would have been more than enough. You're making this as
bad as trying to watch a show on TV <g>.
--
Brian

www.accesswave.ca/~orion

A member of Cauce Canada

www.cauce.ca
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