Running out of time.

[Joyce]

What happens when you run our oat time
to work?

If you work for 3 days, and run out of time, why must you be penalized
for
working...

If a trucker is not honest and runs and not
fill in the log book, that is a no no....

If he stays home, until he can run again
he loses money...

So, where do you make out in the money
field.....

So,this is a type of job you get to lose money, and are penalized for
working.

Only truckers can say that....no other
driver's have to..do they???????

I mean does Brown, or Fed =x or
furniture delivery trucks have to, abide
by this garbage......? Does the Food
delivery trucks like Food LIon have to
do this ? I know that Wal Mart has to
abide with the law...

Where is the justice in this....because
truckers fall asleep at the wheel, causing
accident, this is the answer..

So, he can stay home sleep and not make
a dollar,,,,,ok....that somehow doesn't
make any sense....

What do you think of this...?????

just a thought....joyce

[Mail Hauler]

Post by Joyce
What happens when you run our oat time
to work?

WTF is she babbling about? She must have hit the bottle really hard last
night.

[ga_dispatcher]

Post by Mail Hauler

Post by Joyce
What happens when you run our oat time
to work?

WTF is she babbling about? She must have hit the bottle really hard last
night.

I'm guessing her Hubby got nailed on a log book violation...

[Joyce]

Mail Hauler, and Ga Dispatcher

NO, HE DIDN'T GET NAILED ON A
LOG BOOK VIOLATION....NEVER HAS.

I didn't understand what he was explaining to me,,,so I guess I
misunderstood him......ok.

After 25 years of trucking he should know
what is right and wrong...

In fact last month the boss sent a
nice letter to him, they get their books
audited, and he was ok....so sorry
to make anyone feel superior to others

Geez, want so nails for the cross,

joyce

[Alpha]

Post by Joyce
After 25 years of trucking he should know
what is right and wrong...

Just like I saw the inspecor tamper with the truck hey Joyce?

Dave

[Gringo]

Post by Mail Hauler

Post by Joyce
What happens when you run our oat time
to work?

WTF is she babbling about? She must have hit the bottle really hard last
night.

What are YOU babbling about? She is merely making a comment about one
of the burdens of the trucking life that I assume you are familiar
with. No need to attack her, nothing she said in her post is
derogatory toward you or any individual. Don't bully someone who has
done you no harm, huh?

[Joyce]

Gringo,


Again you come to my rescue, thanks

These guy's get hungry and start to attack
anyone who posts something they don't
understand I am attempting to figure out
he did go back to work two days later.
so, I don't know what it meant.


However as I said, I didn't understand
what he was telling me,

I don't expect anything else but what they
write, I remember a few weeks ago,
so I know they are like a pool of sharks
waiting to attack...anyone for anything..

And you can just see the fingers running
along the pc's,,,,,to get the answer that
makes others laugh at the person they
are attacking..

I would guess since the last time, they are
hungry enough to attack anything that seems out of the ordinary,,
considering
what they have available.

But it's a here we go again,,,and it's me,
not my husband,

He has 25 years in trucking, with no accidents, no fines, no tickets, so
he
isn't a newbie in the business.in fact
just last week received a letter stating
a good job done on his log book,..as others had problems.

They must be bored, and starting up
with me again, because I asked a crazy
question.....I must remember not to
ask any questions here, because these
very talented trucker's, and with many years under their belt, being a
trucker. they are perfect......in every respect..except when it comes to
who doesn't know asking a question and getting a nasty reply..nice
work...but then I should have expected it..

Thanks, joyce


Gringo, your wings are showing....

[ga_dispatcher]

Post by Joyce
Gringo,
Again you come to my rescue, thanks

Yes he did...in typical Liberal fashion. Help
and support those non-thinking, emotional
outbursts instead of actually helping them
understand the real issues.

Post by Joyce
These guy's get hungry and start to attack
anyone who posts something they don't
understand

Aparently it was you that didn't understand. Not that
it would stop you from going off on a rant.


I am attempting to figure out

Post by Joyce
he did go back to work two days later.
so, I don't know what it meant.

But that didn't stop you from coming on
and making wild claims. <visions of a
truck inspector story>

Post by Joyce
However as I said, I didn't understand
what he was telling me,

<news flash>

Post by Joyce
I don't expect anything else but what they
write, I remember a few weeks ago,

And what did you learn from it? Nothing it seems.
You still go off on a rant without knowing the real
facts of the situation. Nothing new here Joyce.

Post by Joyce
And you can just see the fingers running
along the pc's,,,,,to get the answer that
makes others laugh at the person they
are attacking..

Poor poor Joyce playing the victim....

Post by Joyce
They must be bored, and starting up
with me again, because I asked a crazy
question.....I must remember not to
ask any questions here, because these
very talented trucker's, and with many years under their belt, being a
trucker. they are perfect.....

Or maybe they can just do basic math skills....

3 days x 24 hours in a day = 72 hours.

If a trucker runs out of legal time in 3 days....he must
have been running solid for those 3 days. Nevermind the
11 hour rule being smashed to bits in the process.


.in every respect..except when it comes to

Post by Joyce
who doesn't know asking a question and getting a nasty reply..nice
work...but then I should have expected it..

You did more than ask a question....you made wild claims.
Now Joyce I realize over at the trailer park that's
normal. In the real world making wild claims is
going to get you questioned.

[Joyce]

Ga Dispatcher,

I don't believe I said how many hours,
ea. day...so you cannot count on your
fingers what you think.

joyce

[Dave Smith]

Post by Joyce
Ga Dispatcher,
I don't believe I said how many hours,
ea. day...so you cannot count on your
fingers what you think.

Perhaps you forgot your opening in this thread:

"If you work for 3 days, and run out of time, why must you
be penalized
for working"

A driver can only drive a limited number of hours per day
and then has to take 10 hours off duty, or use sleeper berth
time to get that 10 hours off. He can't exceed 60 hours in 7
days. He is right. You are making some wild claims. And he
is right about people questioning when you make wild claims.

[Joyce]

Mail Hauler,

Your an idiot, what was so hare about
my post,,,,And for your information the
only thing Idrink is coffee, and just plain
water....

What's your fancy,,,,????joyce

[Mail Hauler]

Post by Joyce
Mail Hauler,
Your an idiot, what was so hare about
my post,,,,And for your information the
only thing Idrink is coffee, and just plain
water....
What's your fancy,,,,????joyce

What was so hare about your post? Your question here makes no sense, just
like your original post.

So now we know that you don't drink, exactly what painkillers are you
addicted to? Or is it anti-psychotic drugs?

I like Jack Daniels, rum and coke, good wine, German beir, etc.

[Brian Smith]

Post by Joyce
What happens when you run our oat time
to work?

<snipped to preserve others sanity>

Post by Joyce
What do you think of this...?????

What are you going on about, Joyce?

The HOS apply to every operator of a Commercial Motor Vehicle. If you KNOW
of a company that is not operating within the HOS regulations, call the
Department of Transport (or what ever it is called where you are) and give
them the information that you KNOW to be true. They will investigate your
complaint.

Brian

[Joyce]

Brian,

You know Brian, you use to be nice,
what happened, someone hit you on the
head with a brick.

"To preserve others sanity????

Gee, That was really nice of you to say
that....not.

"Not understanding the time frame the
truckers in the US have to work, and not
work...I asked a question, perhaps I
didn't express it plainly enough."

Gee didn't you get your pc fixed so you
could killfile me..

So, why not just scroll over the post with
my name on it, until you fix your pc..

And save yourself the time and energy
you wasted on it...you could post to RR
if that is your type of person to respond
to......

joyce

[Brian Smith]

Post by Joyce
"Not understanding the time frame the
truckers in the US have to work, and not
work...I asked a question, perhaps I
didn't express it plainly enough."

I explained (I thought) what you have to do to complain about an operation
that is not following the HOS regulations. If you want to read the HOS
regulations, just do a search for HOS regulations.

Brian

[ga_dispatcher]

Post by Joyce
What happens when you run our oat time
to work?

Then it's time<no pun intended> to learn time
management skills...and review what you're doing.

Post by Joyce
If you work for 3 days, and run out of time, why must you be penalized
for
working...

If you work for 3 days and go past 70 hours for
the week....you've already got major logging issues
to deal with....not to mention being awake for 72 hours
straight. Otherwise...how do you run out of time to work
in a mere 3 days?

Post by Joyce
If a trucker is not honest and runs and not
fill in the log book, that is a no no....
If he stays home, until he can run again
he loses money...

He should have been making money in those hours he was
working. If not....he needs to look and see where the
problem is. It's not a lack of time issue...it's what you do
in the time that is allowed.

Post by Joyce
So, where do you make out in the money
field.....

By not hauling cheap freight...by not wasting time on
non-paying activities...by watching costs and avoiding
bad business decisions.

Post by Joyce
So,this is a type of job you get to lose money, and are penalized for
working.

No...you get penalized for working in an inefficient manner. There's
no one there to tell you how to operate...the driver/carrier
makes their own choices. If they are bad choices...you pay in the
wallet.

Post by Joyce
Only truckers can say that....no other
driver's have to..do they???????
I mean does Brown, or Fed =x or
furniture delivery trucks have to, abide
by this garbage......? Does the Food
delivery trucks like Food LIon have to
do this ? I know that Wal Mart has to
abide with the law...

Yes Joyce....they do too. They just know how to make
the best use of the time available to them. And they still
make a profit.

Post by Joyce
Where is the justice in this....because
truckers fall asleep at the wheel, causing
accident, this is the answer..

If they are accurate in their logs and have no
other health conditions....they shouldn't be falling
asleep.

Post by Joyce
So, he can stay home sleep and not make
a dollar,,,,,ok....that somehow doesn't
make any sense....

I'm sure it doesn't to you....

Post by Joyce
What do you think of this...?????

I think if you can't figure it out....it's time for a new
line of work.

[Gringo]

Post by ga_dispatcher

Post by Joyce
What happens when you run our oat time
to work?

Then it's time<no pun intended> to learn time
management skills...and review what you're doing.

Running team, west coast turns, if we keep the wheels rolling, we have
to shut it down for the 34-hr reset about every 8 days.

The scales are filled with drivers who have been placed out of service
for logbook violations, so this lament of Joyce's applies to a large
segment of the industry. You who are providing all this unsolicited
criticism of others sit in an office; you don't prepare a logbook, you
never have to finagle your logs to cover for time wasted at
loading/delivery docks. For an OTR driver, "time management" is often
not in his hands. You are perfect, there at your desk, but few of us
OTR road drivers are. Be careful you don't drown when you step off
your high hobby horse.

Post by ga_dispatcher

Post by Joyce
If you work for 3 days, and run out of time, why must you be penalized
for
working...

If you work for 3 days and go past 70 hours for
the week....you've already got major logging issues
to deal with....not to mention being awake for 72 hours
straight. Otherwise...how do you run out of time to work
in a mere 3 days?

Seriously, did you think she was being literal????? An innocent
comment, doing no harm to anyone. Does it make you feel tall and
strong and smart to flaunt what you perceive to be your superiority?

Post by ga_dispatcher

Post by Joyce
If a trucker is not honest and runs and not
fill in the log book, that is a no no....
If he stays home, until he can run again
he loses money...

He should have been making money in those hours he was
working. If not....he needs to look and see where the
problem is. It's not a lack of time issue...it's what you do
in the time that is allowed.

As you probably are not aware, what a driver does with his time is
quite often not up to him. Few of us, for instance, log the time
sitting and waiting as on-duty not-driving-- if we did, we'd never get
anywhere or make any money.

Obviously, Joyce's driver husband manages to get the job done without
your advice: he manages to pay his bills within the confines of the
trucking industry.

Lighten up, for chrissakes. She is merely bemoaning one of the
constraints that neither you nor she can change.

Post by ga_dispatcher

Post by Joyce
So, where do you make out in the money
field.....

By not hauling cheap freight...by not wasting time on
non-paying activities...by watching costs and avoiding
bad business decisions.

Sigh. :(

Post by ga_dispatcher

Post by Joyce
So,this is a type of job you get to lose money, and are penalized for
working.

No...you get penalized for working in an inefficient manner. There's
no one there to tell you how to operate...the driver/carrier
makes their own choices. If they are bad choices...you pay in the
wallet.

You, in your perfection, sit in your office and lecture those who earn
your money for you. You know all there is to know about managing
one's time 2,000 miles from the terminal. Sigh.

Post by ga_dispatcher

Post by Joyce
Only truckers can say that....no other
driver's have to..do they???????
I mean does Brown, or Fed =x or
furniture delivery trucks have to, abide
by this garbage......? Does the Food
delivery trucks like Food LIon have to
do this ? I know that Wal Mart has to
abide with the law...

Yes Joyce....they do too. They just know how to make
the best use of the time available to them. And they still
make a profit.

No, georgia dispatcher, they do not. Local delivery trucks are not
required to log. She is referring here to both little straight trucks
and big trucks that never cross a state line.

Post by ga_dispatcher

Post by Joyce
Where is the justice in this....because
truckers fall asleep at the wheel, causing
accident, this is the answer..

If they are accurate in their logs and have no
other health conditions....they shouldn't be falling
asleep.

The number one cause of truck driver at fault accidents is driver
fatigue. As all drivers know, some days you wake up tired and groggy
even after a full night's sleep; ten minutes into your driving day,
your head feels like it's full of mush (10 minutes of nap with head
across steering wheel may cure the problem). Then other days, even
after a 12-hr drive, you're still good to go. Logs be damned. Too,
I'm talking here about people of normal health. Careful stepping off
the hobby horse. In the real world, truckers quite often butt up
against logbook regs and/or physical anomalies that only occur within
their systems only once in a blue moon. Joyce is not talking about
all the time occurrences; she is merely making an innocent, harmless
comment about the vagaries of driving.

Post by ga_dispatcher

Post by Joyce
So, he can stay home sleep and not make
a dollar,,,,,ok....that somehow doesn't
make any sense....

I'm sure it doesn't to you....

What she has said about trucking for a living would make little sense
to an office poge.

Post by ga_dispatcher

Post by Joyce
What do you think of this...?????

I think if you can't figure it out....it's time for a new
line of work.

It is time for you to stop taking yourself so seriously. It is
alright for you to believe in your own perfection. It is not alright
for you to smugly scrub the face of a lady who has done you no harm in it.
Ah, jesus christ, her comment was tongue in cheek, just musing.
Musing about this or that with friends, we humans often exaggerate our
accomplishments and belittle our failings. Obviously she wasn't
speaking literally. She was merely making an innocent comment;
certainly there was no need for you to feel compelled to give her a
lecture.

[Mail Hauler]

Post by Gringo
segment of the industry. You who are providing all this unsolicited
criticism of others sit in an office; you don't prepare a logbook, you
never have to finagle your logs to cover for time wasted at
loading/delivery docks. For an OTR driver, "time management" is often
not in his hands. You are perfect, there at your desk, but few of us
OTR road drivers are. Be careful you don't drown when you step off
your high hobby horse.

Bullshit, I'm a driver, I do prepare a logbook but I don't have to "finagle"
my logbooks. Sounds like these drivers just chose to work for a crappy
company that works them as slaves.

[Gringo]

Post by Mail Hauler

Post by Gringo
segment of the industry. You who are providing all this unsolicited
criticism of others sit in an office; you don't prepare a logbook, you
never have to finagle your logs to cover for time wasted at
loading/delivery docks. For an OTR driver, "time management" is often
not in his hands. You are perfect, there at your desk, but few of us
OTR road drivers are. Be careful you don't drown when you step off
your high hobby horse.

Bullshit, I'm a driver, I do prepare a logbook but I don't have to "finagle"
my logbooks. Sounds like these drivers just chose to work for a crappy
company that works them as slaves.

ah. another perfect soul. I notice that your handle implies that you
deliver mail. Over a set route, no doubt. Mostly to the same
locations, then back home. I have never seen a trailer or tractor
marked for mail deliveries sitting at any warehouse other than at a
post office or post office distribution center. If you as a mail
driver handle misc freight truly OTR for weeks at a time, it will
surprise me. Besides, O Perfect One, in your perfection you are not
qualified to comment about the rest of us who do sometimes get caught
with our pants down. After all, the driver of a 20-ft local delivery
beer truck is still a driver. But even he admits that he knows
jackshit about what it's like to drive 70+ hours per week for weeks at
a time, far far away from home.

[Mail Hauler]

Post by Gringo
ah. another perfect soul. I notice that your handle implies that you
deliver mail. Over a set route, no doubt. Mostly to the same
locations, then back home. I have never seen a trailer or tractor
marked for mail deliveries sitting at any warehouse other than at a
post office or post office distribution center. If you as a mail
driver handle misc freight truly OTR for weeks at a time, it will
surprise me. Besides, O Perfect One, in your perfection you are not
qualified to comment about the rest of us who do sometimes get caught
with our pants down. After all, the driver of a 20-ft local delivery
beer truck is still a driver. But even he admits that he knows
jackshit about what it's like to drive 70+ hours per week for weeks at
a time, far far away from home.

I do not deliver mail, I haul it from distribution center to distribution
center. I have to abide by the same rules as any other OTR driver. My
trips are 555 miles one way, then take a break and return. I am in 4 states
each trip. So exactly WTF is your problem? Still bitter that Kerry the
catsup boy didn't get elected?

Bite my ass you socialist puke.

[Gringo]

Post by Mail Hauler

Post by Gringo
ah. another perfect soul. I notice that your handle implies that you
deliver mail. Over a set route, no doubt. Mostly to the same
locations, then back home. I have never seen a trailer or tractor
marked for mail deliveries sitting at any warehouse other than at a
post office or post office distribution center. If you as a mail
driver handle misc freight truly OTR for weeks at a time, it will
surprise me. Besides, O Perfect One, in your perfection you are not
qualified to comment about the rest of us who do sometimes get caught
with our pants down. After all, the driver of a 20-ft local delivery
beer truck is still a driver. But even he admits that he knows
jackshit about what it's like to drive 70+ hours per week for weeks at
a time, far far away from home.

I do not deliver mail, I haul it from distribution center to distribution
center. I have to abide by the same rules as any other OTR driver. My
trips are 555 miles one way, then take a break and return. I am in 4 states
each trip. So exactly WTF is your problem? Still bitter that Kerry the
catsup boy didn't get elected?
Bite my ass you socialist puke.

Hey, you came at me with antagonism (the first word of your reply to
me was "Bullshit"); I replied in kind. My comment concerned the short
length and set routes of your runs. You know what it is to drive
tired, sure enough. But logging headaches don't appear to be a
problem of yours. It isn't the having to abide that causes the hassle
of logging, it's the irregular nature (100 miles driving one day, the
next it's 1000) of long haul truckers' days that have earned logbooks
such dirty names among drivers. Still don't understand the difference
in the logging you do and the logging that drivers like Joyce's
husband do? Alright, all that wasted, boring downtime he endured the
day he drove only 100 miles must be made up somehow if he wants to pay
his bills. So, he'll rip out a logsheet and move some of the 1000+
miles of the second day onto the log of the first day. Proper
planning (as georgia dispatcher hints that Joyce's husband is too
stupid to be able to do) has nothing whatever to do with the
aforementioned situation. At least five or six of every one hundred
OTR long haul drivers is forced to sit around and wait for several
hours of each day; hours during which they are not earning a cent.
And let's not forget that the shipper and receiver will still expect
the load to be delivered according to their original timetable.

Now, as to the nasty last sentence of your post. Nah, to hell with
it. I am better than you in every way-- if you yourself didn't doubt
your intellect, you wouldn't have gotten so smart mouthed so quickly.

[ga_dispatcher]

problem of yours. It isn't the having to abide that causes the hassle of
logging, it's the irregular nature (100 miles driving one day, the next
it's 1000) of long haul truckers' days that have earned logbooks such
dirty names among drivers. Still don't understand the difference in the
logging you do and the logging that drivers like Joyce's husband do?
Alright, all that wasted, boring downtime he endured the day he drove only
100 miles must be made up somehow if he wants to pay his bills. So, he'll
rip out a logsheet and move some of the 1000+ miles of the second day onto
the log of the first day. Proper

Then don't do that sort of work....or log it legally. If the load takes
3 days to haul legally instead of 1 day to run illegally then bill them
for 3 days of work. If they don't want to pay for legal operation

DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geez. What is so tough about understanding that something can be
illegal to do. Running an illegal log book to make more money
isn't much different from selling drugs to make lots of money. Doing
illegal things can be profitable....<news flash>.

planning (as georgia dispatcher hints that Joyce's husband is too stupid
to be able to do)

Apparently Joyce is the stupid one...to claim him running out of hours
in a 3 day period.


has nothing whatever to do with the

aforementioned situation. At least five or six of every one hundred OTR
long haul drivers is forced to sit around and wait for several hours of
each day; hours during which they are not earning a cent.

Sounds like they need to be working somewhere else then. Find a place
like those other 94 or 95 OTR drivers that DON"T have to sit around
unpaid. If 94-95% of OTR drivers can figure out how to avoid that
unpaid time....seems the 5-6% should seek better employment.

And let's not forget that the shipper and receiver will still expect
the load to be delivered according to their original timetable.

Maybe they can expect coffee and donuts too. If the time table
can't be met legally....don't take the load. If the driver can't handle
the employement version of "peer pressure" then they need to
go do something else.

Now, as to the nasty last sentence of your post. Nah, to hell with it. I
am better than you in every way-- if you yourself didn't doubt your
intellect, you wouldn't have gotten so smart mouthed so quickly.

He knows your track record.

[Joyce]

Ga. Dispatcher,


Get off the potty will you,,,,geeez you
would think it's your place of business

and you dont know the mileage involved
or the time frame totally.

ok, so be quiet and scroll down..
joyce

[Gringo]

Post by ga_dispatcher

problem of yours. It isn't the having to abide that causes the hassle of
logging, it's the irregular nature (100 miles driving one day, the next
it's 1000) of long haul truckers' days that have earned logbooks such
dirty names among drivers. Still don't understand the difference in the
logging you do and the logging that drivers like Joyce's husband do?
Alright, all that wasted, boring downtime he endured the day he drove only
100 miles must be made up somehow if he wants to pay his bills. So, he'll
rip out a logsheet and move some of the 1000+ miles of the second day onto
the log of the first day. Proper

Then don't do that sort of work....or log it legally. If the load takes
3 days to haul legally instead of 1 day to run illegally then bill them
for 3 days of work. If they don't want to pay for legal operation
DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Geez. What is so tough about understanding that something can be
illegal to do. Running an illegal log book to make more money
isn't much different from selling drugs to make lots of money. Doing
illegal things can be profitable....<news flash>.

planning (as georgia dispatcher hints that Joyce's husband is too stupid
to be able to do)

Apparently Joyce is the stupid one...to claim him running out of hours
in a 3 day period.
has nothing whatever to do with the

aforementioned situation. At least five or six of every one hundred OTR
long haul drivers is forced to sit around and wait for several hours of
each day; hours during which they are not earning a cent.

Sounds like they need to be working somewhere else then. Find a place
like those other 94 or 95 OTR drivers that DON"T have to sit around
unpaid. If 94-95% of OTR drivers can figure out how to avoid that
unpaid time....seems the 5-6% should seek better employment.

And let's not forget that the shipper and receiver will still expect
the load to be delivered according to their original timetable.

Maybe they can expect coffee and donuts too. If the time table
can't be met legally....don't take the load. If the driver can't handle
the employement version of "peer pressure" then they need to
go do something else.

Now, as to the nasty last sentence of your post. Nah, to hell with it. I
am better than you in every way-- if you yourself didn't doubt your
intellect, you wouldn't have gotten so smart mouthed so quickly.

He knows your track record.

You haven't a clue, Mr. dispatcher. Not your fault, granted-- you
don't drive a truck for a living. Truckers can't run loads that
haven't been dispatched, this is certainly true. What you fail to
realize is that fleet owners and their pampered sons cannot dispatch
loads that their drivers cannot/will not deliver. Yet you do insist--
not all of you, but a large percentage of fleets badger their drivers
for things that are beyond the driver's control, many going so far as
to send off bad DAC reports on drivers that do as you suggest and
"go do something else." You are one of those who benefit from
drivers' reluctance to job-hop. I myself have written feature
articles for various trucking magazines urging drivers to think before
they leap the fence (i.e., the grass is not always greener on the
other side). And now here you are, two-faced as usual. Advising
drivers to just quit a fleet that is not perfect. I dare say, you are
not perfect; therefore, your daddy's fleet is not perfect either. So
step off your hobby horsie, maybe climb into the cab of a truck-- a
truck owned by someone other than a family member-- and run, say,
120,000 longhaul miles when and where and how a faraway dispatcher
tells you to. Otherwise, you do not have a clue: your comments here
about this subject are worthless.

[MTINSP]

Post by Gringo
It isn't the having to abide that causes the hassle
of logging, it's the irregular nature (100 miles driving one day, the
next it's 1000) of long haul truckers' days that have earned logbooks
such dirty names among drivers. Still don't understand the difference
in the logging you do and the logging that drivers like Joyce's
husband do? Alright, all that wasted, boring downtime he endured the
day he drove only 100 miles must be made up somehow if he wants to pay
his bills. So, he'll rip out a logsheet and move some of the 1000+
miles of the second day onto the log of the first day. Proper
planning (as georgia dispatcher hints that Joyce's husband is too
stupid to be able to do) has nothing whatever to do with the
aforementioned situation.

The HELL you say!!!

I've heard that before and that is JUST BS!!!!!!!

You are trying to tell us that a driver is "forced" to prepare a false log
just to keep his job. BS!!! There are lots of companies out there - that
driver is just too damn stupid to figure out what he's risking - and he is
SOOOO stupid that he is willing to give away his time FOR FREE AND run the
risk of losing his CDL!!!

Post by Gringo
At least five or six of every one hundred
OTR long haul drivers is forced to sit around and wait for several
hours of each day; hours during which they are not earning a cent.
And let's not forget that the shipper and receiver will still expect
the load to be delivered according to their original timetable.

And if these drivers weren't so damn stupid that they were willing to work
for free, they'd have figured out that they don't HAVE to do that!
Railroads charge demurrage fees for rail cars that aren't unloaded in a
timely manner. Drivers could have done that LONG AGO if they weren't so
willing to lie on the logs and work for free!!! And then they have the gall
to sit there and whine about it instead of doing something about it. And
then there's people like you, Gringo, who say it is all right for drivers to
work for free and lie about it. What the HELL are YOU doing for
drivers??????

[Ga_Dispatcher]

Post by MTINSP
And if these drivers weren't so damn stupid that they were willing to work
for free, they'd have figured out that they don't HAVE to do that!
Railroads charge demurrage fees for rail cars that aren't unloaded in a
timely manner. Drivers could have done that LONG AGO if they weren't so
willing to lie on the logs and work for free!!! And then they have the gall
to sit there and whine about it instead of doing something about it. And
then there's people like you, Gringo, who say it is all right for drivers to
work for free and lie about it. What the HELL are YOU doing for
drivers??????

Business smart carriers charge detention time and actively work to avoid
being stuck for extended load/unload periods. If the shipper/receiver
does keep the truck then they pay dearly. 75-100.00+ an hour for
detention is standard. Apparently OO's with little business sense are
the one sitting for free. I've yet to understand why they keep going
back for more abuse. If the rates on a particular load are low....DON'T
HAUL IT! If they expect you to sit for free....DON"T DELIVER THERE. If
a driver works for a carrier that expects them to sit without being
paid...GO WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE. Jeez...the carrier is being paid for
detention and they should be paying the driver for the time spent. If
the carrier isn't being paid for detention...they won't be around long.
They will be taken advanatge of by shippers and receivers who see them
as being business stupid. If someone is willing to sit around waiting
for free...don't expect the shipper to look out for your financial
interests. That's your job.

Gringo likes to tell how he supports drivers. All he's doing is trying
to keep them as slaves to low wages and long hours<many unpaid it
seems>. Worse yet...he advises breaking the law to keep those low rates
and long unpaid hours.

[Gringo]

Post by Ga_Dispatcher

Post by MTINSP
And if these drivers weren't so damn stupid that they were willing to work
for free, they'd have figured out that they don't HAVE to do that!
Railroads charge demurrage fees for rail cars that aren't unloaded in a
timely manner. Drivers could have done that LONG AGO if they weren't so
willing to lie on the logs and work for free!!! And then they have the gall
to sit there and whine about it instead of doing something about it. And
then there's people like you, Gringo, who say it is all right for drivers to
work for free and lie about it. What the HELL are YOU doing for
drivers??????

Business smart carriers charge detention time and actively work to avoid
being stuck for extended load/unload periods. If the shipper/receiver
does keep the truck then they pay dearly. 75-100.00+ an hour for
detention is standard. Apparently OO's with little business sense are
the one sitting for free. I've yet to understand why they keep going
back for more abuse. If the rates on a particular load are low....DON'T
HAUL IT! If they expect you to sit for free....DON"T DELIVER THERE. If
a driver works for a carrier that expects them to sit without being
paid...GO WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE. Jeez...the carrier is being paid for
detention and they should be paying the driver for the time spent. If
the carrier isn't being paid for detention...they won't be around long.
They will be taken advanatge of by shippers and receivers who see them
as being business stupid. If someone is willing to sit around waiting
for free...don't expect the shipper to look out for your financial
interests. That's your job.

Yeah, I'll just bet you charge detention of your steady customers!
And I am certain you always pass it on to the driver! Naw, bud,
you've demonstrated in numerous posts that you don't give a shit for
the driver-- your attitude is if a fleet is fucking him, he deserves it!

Since deregulation, general business practice is, for blatant
disregard of the driver's time, the fleet ASKS the shipper if the
fleet can charge them, and then a small portion of that is passed down
(the argument being that the truck and trailer is a huge investment,
and if it ain't moving they're losing). But they cannot afford to
piss off a valued customer, therefore few actually demand detention,
and fewer still actually receive it.

Post by Ga_Dispatcher
Gringo likes to tell how he supports drivers. All he's doing is trying
to keep them as slaves to low wages and long hours<many unpaid it
seems>. Worse yet...he advises breaking the law to keep those low rates
and long unpaid hours.

Hey, Mr. Fleet Owner, who exactly is it that pays the low wages and
helps support ATA's lobbying efforts to keep trucking exemption from
the wage and hour laws? who has an autographed photograph of
pro-business anti-worker Dubya on his office wall? Don't be such a
hypocrite.

[Ga_Dispatcher]

Yeah, I'll just bet you charge detention of your steady customers! And I

Nahhh...we're real smart like you. We take on customers that don't pay
well, take long periods of time to load/unload and then don't bill them
for the wasted time. Do you spend long periods of time dreaming crap
like that up?

am certain you always pass it on to the driver!

If they are OTR...yeah. If they are paid by the hour...they get the
regular hourly pay if they are driving or sitting at the dock.

Naw, bud, you've

demonstrated in numerous posts that you don't give a shit for the
driver-- your attitude is if a fleet is fucking him, he deserves it!

If they stay in a bad situation when there are better options out
there...yeah...they deserve it. They have options and don't seek them
out. They keep the bad situation going by remaining part of it. I also
don't have much respect for women that keep going back to abusive
husbands. Getting beat up the 1st time is 100% his fault....going back
for more beatings starts to be a shared responsibility.

Since deregulation, general business practice is, for blatant disregard
of the driver's time, the fleet ASKS the shipper if the fleet can charge
them, and then a small portion of that is passed down (the argument
being that the truck and trailer is a huge investment, and if it ain't
moving they're losing). But they cannot afford to piss off a valued
customer, therefore few actually demand detention, and fewer still
actually receive it.

With thinking like that it's no wonder small carriers/OO's are going
under. Just a tip...if they make you spend long periods of time waiting
unpaid....they aren't a valued customer. That should be simple enough to
understand even for you.

Post by Ga_Dispatcher
Gringo likes to tell how he supports drivers. All he's doing is trying
to keep them as slaves to low wages and long hours<many unpaid it
seems>. Worse yet...he advises breaking the law to keep those low
rates and long unpaid hours.

Hey, Mr. Fleet Owner, who exactly is it that pays the low wages and
helps support ATA's lobbying efforts to keep trucking exemption from the
wage and hour laws?

Since we're not a member...who's that Gringo?

who has an autographed photograph of pro-business

anti-worker Dubya on his office wall? Don't be such a hypocrite.

Sure beats having a photo of wannabe Kerry......how did that election
turn out?

[Gringo]

Post by MTINSP

Post by Gringo
It isn't the having to abide that causes the hassle
of logging, it's the irregular nature (100 miles driving one day, the
next it's 1000) of long haul truckers' days that have earned logbooks
such dirty names among drivers. Still don't understand the difference
in the logging you do and the logging that drivers like Joyce's
husband do? Alright, all that wasted, boring downtime he endured the
day he drove only 100 miles must be made up somehow if he wants to pay
his bills. So, he'll rip out a logsheet and move some of the 1000+
miles of the second day onto the log of the first day. Proper
planning (as georgia dispatcher hints that Joyce's husband is too
stupid to be able to do) has nothing whatever to do with the
aforementioned situation.

The HELL you say!!!
I've heard that before and that is JUST BS!!!!!!!
You are trying to tell us that a driver is "forced" to prepare a false log
just to keep his job. BS!!! There are lots of companies out there - that
driver is just too damn stupid to figure out what he's risking - and he is
SOOOO stupid that he is willing to give away his time FOR FREE AND run the
risk of losing his CDL!!!

You need to take a Midol cocktail, and calm yourself down. I did not
say anything of the kind. Reread it again, please, this time with
your eyes actually open. Maybe if you get a six-year-old to interpret
it for you you will understand it better.

I said:
"It isn't the having to abide that causes the hassle
of logging, it's the irregular nature (100 miles driving one day, the
next it's 1000) of long haul truckers' days that have earned logbooks
such dirty names among drivers. Still don't understand the difference
in the logging you do and the logging that drivers like Joyce's
husband do? Alright, all that wasted, boring downtime he endured the
day he drove only 100 miles must be made up somehow if he wants to pay
his bills. So, he'll rip out a logsheet and move some of the 1000+
miles of the second day onto the log of the first day. Proper
planning (as georgia dispatcher hints that Joyce's husband is too
stupid to be able to do) has nothing whatever to do with the
aforementioned situation."

I'll try once again. This is what the above paragraph says: in order
to earn a decent living, in order to make his time away from home
worthwhile, to make up for that 100-mile day downtime, ALL intelligent
OTR long haul drivers will be tempted to move some of the next day's
1,000+ miles onto the previous day. Of course the fleet did not order
him to do so: however, the driver is encouraged by the fleet to get
the job done somehow (an 'attaboy' if he does deliver on time and a
pissed off dispatcher if he doesn't).

If you were a longhaul OTR general commodities driver, you'd
understand my remarks. If you had any commonsense you'd understand
that all licensed drivers-- not just truckers-- are tempted to run the
risk of a ticket occasionally to get somewhere they need to. So get
off YOUR high horse.

Post by MTINSP

Post by Gringo
At least five or six of every one hundred
OTR long haul drivers is forced to sit around and wait for several
hours of each day; hours during which they are not earning a cent.
And let's not forget that the shipper and receiver will still expect
the load to be delivered according to their original timetable.

And if these drivers weren't so damn stupid that they were willing to work
for free, they'd have figured out that they don't HAVE to do that!
Railroads charge demurrage fees for rail cars that aren't unloaded in a
timely manner. Drivers could have done that LONG AGO if they weren't so
willing to lie on the logs and work for free!!! And then they have the gall
to sit there and whine about it instead of doing something about it. And
then there's people like you, Gringo, who say it is all right for drivers to
work for free and lie about it. What the HELL are YOU doing for
drivers??????

Hey, I do not disagree with you on this one. ALL truckers ought to be
unionized, we ALL should stand shoulder to shoulder and demand our
rights. BUT far too many of us take the attitude of tscott and other
NG posters that they fleet is always right, that if what the driver
wants is detrimental to his fleet then HE is in the wrong-- That kind
of company boy will never stand up for what is right: they lack the
courage.

[MTINSP]

Post by Gringo
ah. another perfect soul. I notice that your handle implies that you
deliver mail. Over a set route, no doubt. Mostly to the same
locations, then back home. I have never seen a trailer or tractor
marked for mail deliveries sitting at any warehouse other than at a
post office or post office distribution center. If you as a mail
driver handle misc freight truly OTR for weeks at a time, it will
surprise me.

AGAIN, proof of your ignorance of the driving profession. You obviously
DON'T pay attention at all do you????? We see MANY OTR mail haulers. How
do you think the mail gets from the east coast to the west coast????

Post by Gringo
Besides, O Perfect One, in your perfection you are not
qualified to comment about the rest of us who do sometimes get caught
with our pants down. After all, the driver of a 20-ft local delivery
beer truck is still a driver. But even he admits that he knows
jackshit about what it's like to drive 70+ hours per week for weeks at
a time, far far away from home.

Na, it is YOU, Gringo, AGAIN caught with your pants down! What DO you know
about????

[Alpha]

"MTINSP" About that cream and strawberries?

Dave

[MTINSP]

Post by Alpha
"MTINSP" About that cream and strawberries?
Dave

You are heading for the killfile. Try this stuff on Amy instead!

[Alpha]

Post by MTINSP

Post by Alpha
"MTINSP" About that cream and strawberries?
Dave

You are heading for the killfile. Try this stuff on Amy instead!

What no sense of humour. You feel the slightest bit uncomfortable
and people are in the bin? Come on learn to laugh. Can you look
and laught at what people say about you? Have you ever heard a joke
and laughed because it was funny and then realised you were the one
everyone was cracking up about?

Young lady lighten up hey?

Dave

[Brian Smith]

Post by Alpha
What no sense of humour. You feel the slightest bit uncomfortable
and people are in the bin? Come on learn to laugh. Can you look
and laught at what people say about you? Have you ever heard a joke
and laughed because it was funny and then realised you were the one
everyone was cracking up about?
Young lady lighten up hey?

In all honesty, once was funny, twice was cute, three times is bordering on
sexual harrasment.

Brian

[MTINSP]

Post by Alpha
What no sense of humour. You feel the slightest bit uncomfortable
and people are in the bin? Come on learn to laugh. Can you look
and laught at what people say about you? Have you ever heard a joke
and laughed because it was funny and then realised you were the one
everyone was cracking up about?
Young lady lighten up hey?
Dave

I have a great sense of humor, but I'm not here to flirt, "find a guy", or
engage in sexual inuendo. When I didn't answer your posts I thought you'd
get the hint.

[Gringo]

Post by MTINSP

Post by Gringo
ah. another perfect soul. I notice that your handle implies that you
deliver mail. Over a set route, no doubt. Mostly to the same
locations, then back home. I have never seen a trailer or tractor
marked for mail deliveries sitting at any warehouse other than at a
post office or post office distribution center. If you as a mail
driver handle misc freight truly OTR for weeks at a time, it will
surprise me.

AGAIN, proof of your ignorance of the driving profession. You obviously
DON'T pay attention at all do you????? We see MANY OTR mail haulers. How
do you think the mail gets from the east coast to the west coast????

DUUUUUUUUUUUHHH. Hauling mail, you ninny. From mail distribution to
mail distribution center; no grocery warehouses, no truly
time-sensitive freight (coast to coast from dock to dock averaging
52-54 mph for the entire trip including all stops). Not the same kind
of trucking for dedicated drop&hook runs that it is for general
commodity live-load live-unload trucking.

Post by MTINSP

Post by Gringo
Besides, O Perfect One, in your perfection you are not
qualified to comment about the rest of us who do sometimes get caught
with our pants down. After all, the driver of a 20-ft local delivery
beer truck is still a driver. But even he admits that he knows
jackshit about what it's like to drive 70+ hours per week for weeks at
a time, far far away from home.

Na, it is YOU, Gringo, AGAIN caught with your pants down! What DO you know
about????

You silly boy. If you cannot understand the difference between
trucking all-kinds-of-freight to anywhere for weeks at a time to a
quick turnaround, even cross-country, out and back home again, then,
child, you need to pull up your drawers and go home.

[Joyce]

Gringo,

I just read your post to Ga. Dispatcher

he did mention something about
34 hour reset...I didn't ask him to
explain it...

I think you gave me the answer...

Sometimes he forgets I don't know
all about trucking just the business
paperwork..part...

Joyce

[ga_dispatcher]

Running team, west coast turns, if we keep the wheels rolling, we have to
shut it down for the 34-hr reset about every 8 days.
The scales are filled with drivers who have been placed out of service for
logbook violations, so this lament of Joyce's applies to a large segment
of the industry. You who are providing all this unsolicited criticism of
others sit in an office; you don't prepare a logbook, you never have to
finagle your logs to cover for time wasted at loading/delivery docks. For
an OTR driver, "time management" is often not in his hands. You are
perfect, there at your desk, but few of us OTR road drivers are. Be
careful you don't drown when you step off your high hobby horse.

I'm the one at the desk who has to make sure that the loads arrive when
needed...and within legal time. If it won't....we don't take the load.
The driver turns those loads in to me and I make sure they didn't go over
their hours. We gewt fined harder than the driver does if they screw up.
I'm not willing to take that chance for any load.

BTW...Joyce's hubby doesn't run coast to coast. Sounds like he
stays close to home...and he sure doesn't run team. So your made up
version of events doesn't come close to reality. Joyce's version isn't close
to reality either...which is why she got the comments.

Seriously, did you think she was being literal????? An innocent comment,
doing no harm to anyone. Does it make you feel tall and strong and smart
to flaunt what you perceive to be your superiority?

I think she's whacked out of her mind at times. If she's asking questions
then they damn well better be literal or it's a waste of time.

Post by ga_dispatcher
He should have been making money in those hours he was
working. If not....he needs to look and see where the
problem is. It's not a lack of time issue...it's what you do
in the time that is allowed.

As you probably are not aware, what a driver does with his time is quite
often not up to him. Few of us, for instance, log the time sitting and
waiting as on-duty not-driving-- if we did, we'd never get anywhere or
make any money.

So when the On Board recorders/aka bacl boxes come....all you
illegal folks will be put out of business. Good thing to see. Those who
runs legal will benefit from you being run out of the business.

Obviously, Joyce's driver husband manages to get the job done without your
advice: he manages to pay his bills within the confines of the trucking
industry.

Hard to tell from Joyce's version of things.

Lighten up, for chrissakes. She is merely bemoaning one of the
constraints that neither you nor she can change.

Then why is she making wild claims?

Post by ga_dispatcher

Post by Joyce
So, where do you make out in the money
field.....

Hauling for direct shippers and occasionally for brokers.
Picking and choosing runs carefully based on the actual
rate for time invested.

Post by ga_dispatcher
By not hauling cheap freight...by not wasting time on
non-paying activities...by watching costs and avoiding
bad business decisions.

Sigh. :(

Yes I see simple common sense business concepts seem to
be beyond your understanding.

You, in your perfection, sit in your office and lecture those who earn
your money for you. You know all there is to know about managing one's
time 2,000 miles from the terminal. Sigh.

I don't send my drivers 2000 miles away. There's not near as much
money in it as there is in other types of runs. While it seems the coast to
coast OTR drivers think they are racking up lots of
money<maybe> about all they do for sure is rack of lots of miles
and wear out their equipment.

Post by ga_dispatcher

Post by Joyce
Only truckers can say that....no other
driver's have to..do they???????
I mean does Brown, or Fed =x or
furniture delivery trucks have to, abide
by this garbage......? Does the Food
delivery trucks like Food LIon have to
do this ? I know that Wal Mart has to
abide with the law...

Yes Joyce....they do too. They just know how to make
the best use of the time available to them. And they still
make a profit.

No, georgia dispatcher, they do not. Local delivery trucks are not
required to log. She is referring here to both little straight trucks and
big trucks that never cross a state line.

Maybe it's me....I've yet to see a Food Lion straight truck...they
run tractor trailers...as does Walmart....you see many Walmart
straight trucks? How many local delivery Walmart straight trucks
have you seen????? Brown and Fed EX also have lots of
tractor trailers that have to log. Trying to make up something that
makes Joyce look less stupid and you look smart...a waste of
time Gringo.

The number one cause of truck driver at fault accidents is driver fatigue.
As all drivers know, some days you wake up tired and groggy even after a
full night's sleep; ten minutes into your driving day, your head feels
like it's full of mush (10 minutes of nap with head across steering wheel
may cure the problem). Then other days, even after a 12-hr drive, you're
still good to go. Logs be damned. Too,

Then again you seem to think you and nearly all other drivers aren't
logging properly to begin with. So how would you even know what
a properly rested driver is like...you only hang out with the ones
running illegal.

I'm talking here about people of normal health. Careful stepping off the
hobby horse. In the real world, truckers quite often butt up against
logbook regs and/or physical anomalies that only occur within their
systems only once in a blue moon.

Apparently you violate log books all the time according to your
earlier admission.


Joyce is not talking about

all the time occurrences; she is merely making an innocent, harmless
comment about the vagaries of driving.

Read into her claims what you will.....it doesn't help her position.

Post by ga_dispatcher
So, he can stay home sleep and not make

Post by Joyce
a dollar,,,,,ok....that somehow doesn't
make any sense....

I'm sure it doesn't to you....

What she has said about trucking for a living would make little sense to
an office poge.

Or anyone with common sense. That what she says makes sense to you....

well.....that says a great deal about you. Do you translate for the insane
in
your free time?

It is time for you to stop taking yourself so seriously. It is alright
for you to believe in your own perfection. It is not alright for you to
smugly scrub the face of a lady who has done you no harm in it.

If she's going to make wild statements/claims...she better expect to
be questioned.

Ah, jesus christ, her comment was tongue in cheek, just musing. Musing
about this or that with friends, we humans often exaggerate our
accomplishments and belittle our failings. Obviously she wasn't speaking
literally.

Sadly....she likely was...at least her own version of literally.
She actually believes the crap she writes. She actually belived the
truck inspector story from a while back. She's not just making
conversation....she's not passing the time....she really thinks
these things.You attempting to dismiss it all away isn't going to
make people think better of joyce. It might make you feel better
buy Joyce isn't going to suddenly have clear thoughts based on your
nice words. Maybe if her wild claims are questioned she
might actually look at them and wonder why people disagree with
her.By supporting her you allow her to continue her fantasy life.

[Joyce]

Ga dispatcher,

Geez, you waste time with gringo, you trying to make me out to be a nut

I posted another thing grino had said
and i believe that was the answer.

So, you can quit hanging me all the time,
you also had plenty of fun trying to make
amy look bad...she knew what it was
all about, so you did'nt win trying to take
her down,,,me I just asked a question
of truckers..that's all,YOU DON'T EVEN
DRIVE, YOU SOUND LIKE A DISPATCHER, so far I've seen 5 different
trucking companies since 2000, all of
them are NUTTY, NASTY,and not among
the living.....(maybe it's the game)...

Don't fret, living in a l0 acre rural mobile
home park, all by ourselves, is great.

don't have neighbors like you....and
Gringo, being a gentleman,tried to clear
up some problems with your mouth,
mine would be to put 5 knuckles in it.
DISPATCHERS...YUK. at what time of the day do you lose it.....to much
coffee.
the stress get you going..

don't fret, the loads he ran, were great
and the fuel sur charge paid for all the
loads. the 25 years he has put into the
game, he knows his business, I don't
need your crappy advice or rude statements....

Have a what ever,
joyce

[Alpha]

Ok ok Joyce do you have any strawberries and cream?

Dave

[MTINSP]

Post by Gringo
Running team, west coast turns, if we keep the wheels rolling, we have
to shut it down for the 34-hr reset about every 8 days.
The scales are filled with drivers who have been placed out of service
for logbook violations, so this lament of Joyce's applies to a large
segment of the industry.

And that is DAMN SCARY!!! To think those drivers were on the road and
planned to BE on the road when they were over hours!!

Post by Gringo
You who are providing all this unsolicited
criticism of others sit in an office; you don't prepare a logbook, you
never have to finagle your logs to cover for time wasted at
loading/delivery docks. For an OTR driver, "time management" is often
not in his hands.

Then he's in the wrong business!!! ALL of us have time management
problems - we figure out a way to deal with them without endangering other
people's lives.

Post by Gringo
You are perfect, there at your desk, but few of us
OTR road drivers are. Be careful you don't drown when you step off
your high hobby horse.

Then you probably don't belong on the job!!!! I certainly wouldn't be if I
broke the rules concerning my job and neither would anybody else!!!

[Gringo]

Post by MTINSP

Post by Gringo
Running team, west coast turns, if we keep the wheels rolling, we have
to shut it down for the 34-hr reset about every 8 days.
The scales are filled with drivers who have been placed out of service
for logbook violations, so this lament of Joyce's applies to a large
segment of the industry.

And that is DAMN SCARY!!! To think those drivers were on the road and
planned to BE on the road when they were over hours!!

Post by Gringo
You who are providing all this unsolicited
criticism of others sit in an office; you don't prepare a logbook, you
never have to finagle your logs to cover for time wasted at
loading/delivery docks. For an OTR driver, "time management" is often
not in his hands.

Then he's in the wrong business!!! ALL of us have time management
problems - we figure out a way to deal with them without endangering other
people's lives.

Post by Gringo
You are perfect, there at your desk, but few of us
OTR road drivers are. Be careful you don't drown when you step off
your high hobby horse.

Then you probably don't belong on the job!!!! I certainly wouldn't be if I
broke the rules concerning my job and neither would anybody else!!!

You simply haven't a clue. Trucking is not just any other job. When
for whatever reason we cannot run, we sit sit sit in a truckstop or
rest area, thousands of miles from home, not earning a dime for
sometimes days at a time. Yet, our expenses continue. We must eat,
we must pass the time somehow-- some, feed video machines; some,
merely overfeed themselves out of boredom; some watch TV and/or read.
We don't have your option of going home or out to a movie with
friends. Hell, if we believe we're being seriously abused by an
employer, we have no choice but to sit and wait for the boss to get us
and their truck home... for if we say to hell with it and park and
pack up and catch a plane, we will be charged the full cost of getting
the truck back to its terminal. You get pissed off, you can say the
hell with it on the spot, only one of the many differences. You
cannot ever understand a goddamn thing about a trucker's life because
you will never be responsible for delivering loads for a month at a
time. Look, no offense. Not your fault that you cannot comprehend
our problems. However, it is your fault that you close your mind and
refuse to even try to comprehend. tscott and roughrider and mail
hauler and other local drivers, they cannot help you to understand by
talking exclusively about little short runs.

[Mail Hauler]

Post by Gringo
tscott and roughrider and mail
hauler and other local drivers, they cannot help you to understand by
talking exclusively about little short runs.

At least I am in good company! Me a local driver? How about regional? The
local drivers here never leave the valley. I leave the valley, the state,
the next state, and the next state.

I'm sorry that you cannot or will not find yourself a decent trucking job,
but that is not my fault. Myself, I like working only 4 days a week and
grossing just over 50K. I never have to worry about running out of hours,
the pay is great, the receiver always wants their freight. Why would I want
to go live your life? Maybe the only thing would be the gorgeous female
co-driver, but I think that might just be a lie to distract us from your
otherwise pathetic life.

[Roughrider50]

Post by Mail Hauler

Post by Gringo
tscott and roughrider and mail
hauler and other local drivers, they cannot help you to understand by
talking exclusively about little short runs.

What little short runs? My company does employ local drivers but considering
I live too far from the "action", nor do I have the desire to become a local
driver. I can be best classified as regional. About 4-6 hundred miles tops.
Last week I took a load from the twin cities to Grand Rapids MI, then down
to Dowagiac MI back to the Twin Cities, picked up a loaded trailer & went to
Cedar Rapids, unloaded, washed out & then bounced to Alton IL for a load
back to the twin cities. I then Bobtailed home for the weekend. The previous
week I went as far east as Harrison NJ.
--
Roughrider50

Post by Mail Hauler
At least I am in good company! Me a local driver? How about regional?
The
local drivers here never leave the valley. I leave the valley, the state,
the next state, and the next state.
I'm sorry that you cannot or will not find yourself a decent trucking job,
but that is not my fault. Myself, I like working only 4 days a week and
grossing just over 50K. I never have to worry about running out of hours,
the pay is great, the receiver always wants their freight. Why would I want
to go live your life? Maybe the only thing would be the gorgeous female
co-driver, but I think that might just be a lie to distract us from your
otherwise pathetic life.

[Gringo]

Post by Roughrider50

Post by Gringo
tscott and roughrider and mail
hauler and other local drivers, they cannot help you to understand by
talking exclusively about little short runs.

What little short runs? My company does employ local drivers but considering
I live too far from the "action", nor do I have the desire to become a local
driver. I can be best classified as regional. About 4-6 hundred miles tops.
Last week I took a load from the twin cities to Grand Rapids MI, then down
to Dowagiac MI back to the Twin Cities, picked up a loaded trailer & went to
Cedar Rapids, unloaded, washed out & then bounced to Alton IL for a load
back to the twin cities. I then Bobtailed home for the weekend. The previous
week I went as far east as Harrison NJ.

I stand corrected. Actually, re: driver issues, you and I are often
on the same side. Would you please try to set some of them straight
re: the headache that a logbook can be for a driver who isn't tied to
a dedicated load?

[Gringo]

Post by Mail Hauler

Post by Gringo
tscott and roughrider and mail
hauler and other local drivers, they cannot help you to understand by
talking exclusively about little short runs.

At least I am in good company! Me a local driver? How about regional? The
local drivers here never leave the valley. I leave the valley, the state,
the next state, and the next state.
I'm sorry that you cannot or will not find yourself a decent trucking job,
but that is not my fault. Myself, I like working only 4 days a week and
grossing just over 50K. I never have to worry about running out of hours,
the pay is great, the receiver always wants their freight. Why would I want
to go live your life? Maybe the only thing would be the gorgeous female
co-driver, but I think that might just be a lie to distract us from your
otherwise pathetic life.

See, I attempt a civil discussion with you, and you keep slinging mud.
The pure fact is that long haul OTR drivers are a special breed, we
perform a valuable service for this nation. And we are well paid for
the privilege.
Now exactly where did I make a comment about the appearance of my
co-driver? A female out here on the road could be as ugly as a swamp
frog and still get hit on several times a day. Fact is, my
stepdaughter is attractive, though.

You want to talk pathetic, little man, first you should look in the
mirror into your own pissy little life. I travel the entire nation.
I enjoy Oregon salmon in Oregon beside a beautiful waterfall, Texas
enchiladas served by beautiful San Antonio senoritas, baked beans in
Boston and peach cobbler in Atlanta. While you, sadie sack, run the
same boring 555 miles, trip after trip. I run across old friends just
about every place I stop in every state in this great nation. If
anyone calls you a friend, they obviously have yet to learn that
you're as stupid as a steer without balls trying to hump a bigger,
badder smarter bull.

[Skateboard'n]

Post by ga_dispatcher
Then it's time<no pun intended> to learn time
management skills...and review what you're doing.

You've gone strictly with the HOS as pertaining to driving only. If one were
to work an odd job on the weekend, be it flipping hamburgers or whatever, it
also must be logged. No kind of management skills are going to teach you how
to do this kind of thing & still work to make ends meet.... legally.

Therefore a driver is being penalized for logging legal.


Tom

[ga_dispatcher]

Post by Skateboard'n

Post by ga_dispatcher
Then it's time<no pun intended> to learn time
management skills...and review what you're doing.

You've gone strictly with the HOS as pertaining to driving only. If one
were to work an odd job on the weekend, be it flipping hamburgers or
whatever, it also must be logged. No kind of management skills are going
to teach you how to do this kind of thing & still work to make ends
meet.... legally.
Therefore a driver is being penalized for logging legal.

And if trucking doesn't pay the bills alone...and they must work on the
weekend...either driving or doing whatever.....then seems they need
to be doing something else. If they don't like the rules they must work
under...they need a different job. Maybe a job that doesn't put the public
at so much risk if they happen to fall asleep from working too much.

[Joyce]

Ga Dispatcher,

Well thanks for the trucking lesson,
I asked a question, in a field I don't
understand.

Perhaps (he) explained it to me and I
didn't understand it,,,but he knows
what to do.and not what to do.

But thanks,, joyce

[Maveric169]

How on earth do you run out of hours in 3 days? You are doing something
VERY WRONG to pull that off! Spend some time re-reading the HOS rules, talk
with your safety dept, do something cause you are headed for a BIG fine.

Post by Joyce
What happens when you run our oat time
to work?
If you work for 3 days, and run out of time, why must you be penalized
for
working...
If a trucker is not honest and runs and not
fill in the log book, that is a no no....
If he stays home, until he can run again
he loses money...
So, where do you make out in the money
field.....
So,this is a type of job you get to lose money, and are penalized for
working.
Only truckers can say that....no other
driver's have to..do they???????
I mean does Brown, or Fed =x or
furniture delivery trucks have to, abide
by this garbage......? Does the Food
delivery trucks like Food LIon have to
do this ? I know that Wal Mart has to
abide with the law...
Where is the justice in this....because
truckers fall asleep at the wheel, causing
accident, this is the answer..
So, he can stay home sleep and not make
a dollar,,,,,ok....that somehow doesn't
make any sense....
What do you think of this...?????
just a thought....joyce

[Gringo]

Post by Maveric169
How on earth do you run out of hours in 3 days? You are doing something
VERY WRONG to pull that off! Spend some time re-reading the HOS rules, talk
with your safety dept, do something cause you are headed for a BIG fine.

Post by Joyce
What happens when you run our oat time
to work?
If you work for 3 days, and run out of time, why must you be penalized
for
working...
If a trucker is not honest and runs and not
fill in the log book, that is a no no....
If he stays home, until he can run again
he loses money...
So, where do you make out in the money
field.....
So,this is a type of job you get to lose money, and are penalized for
working.
Only truckers can say that....no other
driver's have to..do they???????
I mean does Brown, or Fed =x or
furniture delivery trucks have to, abide
by this garbage......? Does the Food
delivery trucks like Food LIon have to
do this ? I know that Wal Mart has to
abide with the law...
Where is the justice in this....because
truckers fall asleep at the wheel, causing
accident, this is the answer..
So, he can stay home sleep and not make
a dollar,,,,,ok....that somehow doesn't
make any sense....
What do you think of this...?????
just a thought....joyce

Maverick, she should have made it plain that she didn't mean her
comment to be taken literally. She was just sort of mumbling to
herself about how hard it is to be a driver in compliance with the
often contradictory DOT regs and still earn a living. Nothing harmful
in anything she wrote. We all mumble to ourselves and often out loud
-- complaining about this or that-- wherever drivers are gathered.
Since health keeps her at home these days while her husband drives,
Joyce was doing the same, here on the NG... because she cannot so
easily talk to drivers face to face as she would prefer. You see what
they do here on the NG, don't you? Many line up to attack anything
she says, and what harm has she done anyone? Forgive me if it seems
that I'm positing you within the gang of bullies; you were trying to
be helpful.

[Dave Smith]

Post by Gringo
Maverick, she should have made it plain that she didn't mean her
comment to be taken literally. She was just sort of mumbling to
herself about how hard it is to be a driver in compliance with the
often contradictory DOT regs and still earn a living.

Which contradictory regs are those?

Post by Gringo
Nothing harmful
in anything she wrote. We all mumble to ourselves and often out loud
-- complaining about this or that-- wherever drivers are gathered.

Well, I read it a few times. Didn't comment on it, but my thoughts at the time
were that Joyce had been into the bottle or into the catnip.

[Mail Hauler]

"Dave Smith" <***@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:***@sympatico.ca...
.

Post by Dave Smith
Well, I read it a few times. Didn't comment on it, but my thoughts at the time
were that Joyce had been into the bottle or into the catnip.

Same here. Joyce does has a history of posting nosenical posts here.
Alcohol or pain killers or both.

[Joyce]

Mail Hauler,

Is that the only logical answer you have,
for anyone especially women, that they
drink...well I don't, ice tea, or coffee,,

That to me is a put down, on women,
and I don't know why you think that way.

And I take Excederin, thank you, in case
you have now figured maybe it's druge
my accident was in l988, in NY, I got hit
by a car, flew up onto the hood of the car,
and slid down the front of it, and the driver
wasn't looking at me when she came out
of the driveway, she just pulled out. I was
crossing to catch a bus home.

I have an entraped nerve in that particular
foot, and it gives out sometimes, but the
fall on the staircase was the slippery
mat...

Thank you for your thoughts. joyce

[Ga_Dispatcher]

Post by Joyce
Mail Hauler,
Is that the only logical answer you have,
for anyone especially women, that they
drink...well I don't, ice tea, or coffee,,

He's giving you the benefit of the doubt. If it's
not alcohol or drugs...then it leaves you
being mentally unbalanced based on your posts.
Wouldn't it be better to have an addiction that you
can beat compared to a life long mental problem?

Post by Joyce
That to me is a put down, on women,
and I don't know why you think that way.

It's not an attack on women...it's an attack
on ignorant posts and those that make them.

Post by Joyce
And I take Excederin, thank you, in case
you have now figured maybe it's druge
my accident was in l988, in NY, I got hit
by a car, flew up onto the hood of the car,
and slid down the front of it,

Happen to bump your head? Might explain a great deal...

[Gringo]

Post by Ga_Dispatcher

Post by Joyce
Mail Hauler,
Is that the only logical answer you have,
for anyone especially women, that they
drink...well I don't, ice tea, or coffee,,

He's giving you the benefit of the doubt. If it's
not alcohol or drugs...then it leaves you
being mentally unbalanced based on your posts.
Wouldn't it be better to have an addiction that you
can beat compared to a life long mental problem?

Post by Joyce
That to me is a put down, on women,
and I don't know why you think that way.

It's not an attack on women...it's an attack
on ignorant posts and those that make them.

You talking about ignorant posts? I ask again, what did she hurt with
her original post? Not written as eloquently as some would, but so
what? Why do you jump on her with both feet for merely trying to pass
on the gist of conversations that all drivers hear a dozen times per
day. You talk to your mother in that tone of voice? Come on, where
is a little understanding? compassion? Jump on me, big boy, I can
defend myself against your slanted pro-business fuck-the-driver posts;
don't stomp on one you know you can overpower if not by yourself
but with your entire team of right-wing bully boy friends.

Post by Ga_Dispatcher

Post by Joyce
And I take Excederin, thank you, in case
you have now figured maybe it's druge
my accident was in l988, in NY, I got hit
by a car, flew up onto the hood of the car,
and slid down the front of it,

Happen to bump your head? Might explain a great deal...

You feel like a big boy now? You kicked a nice lady enough times in
the teeth?

[Mail Hauler]

Post by Gringo
You talking about ignorant posts? I ask again, what did she hurt with
her original post? Not written as eloquently as some would, but so
what?

You know what, if Joyce would at least try and proofread her own posts,
before she posts them for grammar, spelling, and coherence, I'd consider
giving her a break.

[Gringo]

Post by Mail Hauler

Post by Gringo
You talking about ignorant posts? I ask again, what did she hurt with
her original post? Not written as eloquently as some would, but so
what?

You know what, if Joyce would at least try and proofread her own posts,
before she posts them for grammar, spelling, and coherence, I'd consider
giving her a break.

She admits that she is no computer expert; most people can't write a
coherent sentence, their letters to family run on nonstop for two
pages without a paragraph break, or for some, even punctuation marks.
Joyce's posts are a step or two above that, wouldn't you say. You
agree with me, I assume, that her posts are superior to the dilliness
posted by rocky & friends. Joyce isn't hurting anyone, until someone
says something nasty about her, she generally talks in generalities
about the state of our industry. I know a driver didn't finish 2nd
grade, he can barely sign his name. Yet, he is one of the smartest
men I ever met.

I'm done with this. Gotta go back OTR for about a month. Enjoyed the
discussions with you--even if we did get a little hot with one another
once or twice.

[T Vee]

Post by Dave Smith

Post by Gringo
Maverick, she should have made it plain that she didn't mean her
comment to be taken literally. She was just sort of mumbling to
herself about how hard it is to be a driver in compliance with the
often contradictory DOT regs and still earn a living.

Which contradictory regs are those?

Post by Gringo
Nothing harmful
in anything she wrote. We all mumble to ourselves and often out loud
-- complaining about this or that-- wherever drivers are gathered.

Well, I read it a few times. Didn't comment on it, but my thoughts at the time
were that Joyce had been into the bottle or into the catnip.

I agree also. A little of free flow of consciousness typing there.

But in a larger picture, how much does her Hubby make if he cannot
afford to take the 34 hour break to start a new 70?

[Pete]

To hear her tell it, he can't make enough money if he ran it 24/7/365

Post by T Vee
I agree also. A little of free flow of consciousness typing there.

But in a larger picture, how much does her Hubby make if he cannot afford
to take the 34 hour break to start a new 70?

[Joyce]

Good God,

You all have nothing to do better then
pick my post apart,,,,

I didn'tt say he didn't make money,
or enought of it, so just cut the crap
ok.....the loads were very good..

Haven't you got something better to pick
on instead of me..I just asked a question
and I believe Gringo gave me the
answer,,,in a post today

So, decide who you will pick on next
what's the matter RR isn't available.

Have a nice day......joyce

[Dave Smith]

Post by Joyce
Good God,
You all have nothing to do better then
pick my post apart,,,,

LOL. There isn't much to pick apart. I read it and tried
to make sense out of it, then just shook my head and went on
to the next on.

[Joyce]

Dave Smith,,,


When you shook your head,

Did you hear anything besides the
marbles...joyce

[Joyce]

Dave Smith,

Perhaps you better get with the group
and start on Rocky, everyone here
seems to be in a funk....NOTICE I
SAID F U N K.

joyce

[Joyce]

David Smith,

" YOU READ IT, AND SHOOK YOUR
HEAD" AND WENT ON TO THE NEXT
ONE.. ''''WELL HOPEFULLY IT WAS TO
ROCKY, THAT IS MORE YOUR STYLE'.

joyce

[Dave Smith]

Post by Joyce
David Smith,
" YOU READ IT, AND SHOOK YOUR
HEAD" AND WENT ON TO THE NEXT
ONE.. ''''WELL HOPEFULLY IT WAS TO
ROCKY, THAT IS MORE YOUR STYLE'.

Joyce, don't make things up and put them into quotation
makes as if I said them. When I speak in the first person I
use "I" instead of "you" and I don't yell in caps. Rocky is
plonked so I don't even see his crap.

[realitytrucker]

Post by T Vee

Post by Dave Smith

Post by Gringo
Maverick, she should have made it plain that she didn't mean her
comment to be taken literally. She was just sort of mumbling to
herself about how hard it is to be a driver in compliance with the
often contradictory DOT regs and still earn a living.

Which contradictory regs are those?

Post by Gringo
Nothing harmful
in anything she wrote. We all mumble to ourselves and often out loud
-- complaining about this or that-- wherever drivers are gathered.

Well, I read it a few times. Didn't comment on it, but my thoughts at the time
were that Joyce had been into the bottle or into the catnip.

I agree also. A little of free flow of consciousness typing there.
But in a larger picture, how much does her Hubby make if he cannot
afford to take the 34 hour break to start a new 70?

I got the impression from her past posts that he is running containers
out of Norfolk Commercial port in Norfolrk, Va. I don't know how much
that pays but I don't think it pays as well as OTR does. He used to
post here about 5 years ago...quite a piece of work, that one was.
Google "Lenny Gates" and read some of his old posts.

[Joyce]

Realty Trucker

He also takes loads from the rails,
and most are good paying loads,
even the sur charge is great.

I have no qualms about pay, I just didn't
understand the problem with hours
but I saw a post today that Gringo
said something about the hours,

joyce

[Gringo]

Post by Dave Smith

Post by Gringo
Maverick, she should have made it plain that she didn't mean her
comment to be taken literally. She was just sort of mumbling to
herself about how hard it is to be a driver in compliance with the
often contradictory DOT regs and still earn a living.

Which contradictory regs are those?

Dave, really now, do you require me to break down all 1000+ pages of
driver's safety regs handbook and the equally thick hazmat rapid
response guidebook seeking a few words here or there that seem to
disagree with something printed somewhere else-- I assure you that
such instances do exist. Trying to cover every contingency leads to
bloated legalese in business contracts and government regulations.
Surely you don't deny that regulations as written in the books are
often confusing. Far as I'm concerned, every sentence of the damned
regulations book is ten or so words too damned long.

Post by Dave Smith

Post by Gringo
Nothing harmful
in anything she wrote. We all mumble to ourselves and often out loud
-- complaining about this or that-- wherever drivers are gathered.

Well, I read it a few times. Didn't comment on it, but my thoughts at the time
were that Joyce had been into the bottle or into the catnip.

The lady is a very senior citizen, you know. She is home without her
husband, her only entertainment the TV and this NG. She made a
comment, is all. The kind of comment we hear ten times a day on CB
radio and another five times a day face-to-face across a truckstop
cafe. We OTR long haul drivers bitch and moan about having to log all
the time; Joyce's perhaps ineloquent but harmless comment did not earn
her any personal attacks.

[Dave Smith]

Post by Gringo

Post by Dave Smith

Post by Gringo
Maverick, she should have made it plain that she didn't mean her
comment to be taken literally. She was just sort of mumbling to
herself about how hard it is to be a driver in compliance with the
often contradictory DOT regs and still earn a living.

Which contradictory regs are those?

Dave, really now, do you require me to break down all 1000+ pages of
driver's safety regs handbook and the equally thick hazmat rapid
response guidebook seeking a few words here or there that seem to
disagree with something printed somewhere else-- I assure you that
such instances do exist. Trying to cover every contingency leads to
bloated legalese in business contracts and government regulations.

I don't expect you to do any such thing. You were the one who said that the
regulations were contradictory. The thread was about hours of work. The hours of
work regulations are just a few pages, not more than a thousand as you suggest. If
you want to publicly claim that the regs are contradictory I don't think that it is
too much to ask for an example of said contradiction.

FWIW, I know of examples of Ontario regulations about vehicle standards that are
contradictory, but not hours of work.

Post by Gringo
Surely you don't deny that regulations as written in the books are
often confusing. Far as I'm concerned, every sentence of the damned
regulations book is ten or so words too damned long.

Lots of things are confusing if you don't understand them. Most laws are written in
a particular way to ensure that they are understandable. It is easy to misread
them. Once you learn how to read laws and regulations, they become easier to
understand. Never the less, there is a difference between being difficult to
understand and being contradictory.

Post by Gringo
The lady is a very senior citizen, you know. She is home without her
husband, her only entertainment the TV and this NG.

And, it seems, a bottle to keep her company.

Post by Gringo
She made a
comment, is all. The kind of comment we hear ten times a day on CB
radio and another five times a day face-to-face across a truckstop
cafe. We OTR long haul drivers bitch and moan about having to log all
the time; Joyce's perhaps ineloquent but harmless comment did not earn
her any personal attacks.

And you may have that I did not attack her. I responded to an attack on someone else
when you attacked him for a comment that I had been thinking but had not aired
publicly.

[Gringo]

Post by Dave Smith

Post by Gringo

Post by Dave Smith

Post by Gringo
Maverick, she should have made it plain that she didn't mean her
comment to be taken literally. She was just sort of mumbling to
herself about how hard it is to be a driver in compliance with the
often contradictory DOT regs and still earn a living.

Which contradictory regs are those?

Dave, really now, do you require me to break down all 1000+ pages of
driver's safety regs handbook and the equally thick hazmat rapid
response guidebook seeking a few words here or there that seem to
disagree with something printed somewhere else-- I assure you that
such instances do exist. Trying to cover every contingency leads to
bloated legalese in business contracts and government regulations.

I don't expect you to do any such thing. You were the one who said that the
regulations were contradictory. The thread was about hours of work. The hours of
work regulations are just a few pages, not more than a thousand as you suggest. If
you want to publicly claim that the regs are contradictory I don't think that it is
too much to ask for an example of said contradiction.
FWIW, I know of examples of Ontario regulations about vehicle standards that are
contradictory, but not hours of work.

Post by Gringo
Surely you don't deny that regulations as written in the books are
often confusing. Far as I'm concerned, every sentence of the damned
regulations book is ten or so words too damned long.

Lots of things are confusing if you don't understand them. Most laws are written in
a particular way to ensure that they are understandable. It is easy to misread
them. Once you learn how to read laws and regulations, they become easier to
understand. Never the less, there is a difference between being difficult to
understand and being contradictory.

Listen, you and I, we are on the same side on most issues. I don't
want to be pushed into attack/counterattack with you. I certainly do
not have the hours of time necessary to pore through regulations that
I do not need to. I assure you that my reading comprehension is fine.
And I also assure you, that as every lawyer readily admits,
contracts and legislation contain scads of legalese whose sole purpose
is to confuse the masses. (Else, why the reams of small print in a
standard contract?) journalists who specialize in distilling all that
verbiage into understandable text earn a pretty good living. Now, you
claim it is added merely to aid comprehension. Not true, they are
merely trying to cover every conceivable base. Still, they usually
fail for lack of enough words.

Here's one example: my wife recently got a ticket in CA for not
wearing a seat belt in our truck. She WAS wearing it, the shoulder
strap was behind her back because of a recent neck operation and a
still-tender scar that the strap rubbed against. The cop nevertheless
wrote the ticket. I researched the statute when we got home, and
guess what, the seat belt law says not one word about HOW the SEAT
belt must be worn. So, she was entirely legal; as the clerk of court
laughed, "According to the regulation, if she had had the belt
strapped around one leg, unfortunately, she would have been legal."
Ticket tossed out.

Post by Dave Smith

Post by Gringo
The lady is a very senior citizen, you know. She is home without her
husband, her only entertainment the TV and this NG.

And, it seems, a bottle to keep her company.

Uncalled for, Dave. Unlike you. In all the disagreements we had with
some of the more rabid right wingers, not once did you ever attack a
poster personally-- I did, as the situation warranted-- but you never
did.

Post by Dave Smith

Post by Gringo
She made a
comment, is all. The kind of comment we hear ten times a day on CB
radio and another five times a day face-to-face across a truckstop
cafe. We OTR long haul drivers bitch and moan about having to log all
the time; Joyce's perhaps ineloquent but harmless comment did not earn
her any personal attacks.

And you may have that I did not attack her. I responded to an attack on someone else
when you attacked him for a comment that I had been thinking but had not aired
publicly.

I defended a lady who has done no harm to anyone against slabbering
personal attacks on her character and intelligence; when the attackers
dumped on me in response, you can be sure that I counter attacked.
Rocky roadie, now, that boy is like a pig in a sty-- he loves it when
a bucket of puke is poured over his head. But, Noyce, she did no harm
to anyone.

[Dave Smith]

Post by Gringo
Listen, you and I, we are on the same side on most issues. I don't
want to be pushed into attack/counterattack with you. I certainly do
not have the hours of time necessary to pore through regulations that
I do not need to. I assure you that my reading comprehension is fine.

Sorry, but it it was not in my intention to get in a attack/counterattack. Nor did I make
any inference about your reading comprehension. I merely acknowledged that legislation and
regulations can be difficult to read. Some sections refer directly to other regulations,
have numerous exemptions written into them, use definitions from other sections or other
pieces of legislation and have other issues that make them difficult to read and
understand.

I have no problem admitting that law is difficult to read. I have taught courses
to enforcement staff about the various pieces of legislation that we enforced. IMO,
Hours of Work regulation are fairly straightforward. There are exemptions for certain
types of operations and classes of vehicle, but no contradictions.

Post by Gringo
And I also assure you, that as every lawyer readily admits,
contracts and legislation contain scads of legalese whose sole purpose
is to confuse the masses. (Else, why the reams of small print in a
standard contract?) journalists who specialize in distilling all that
verbiage into understandable text earn a pretty good living. Now, you
claim it is added merely to aid comprehension. Not true, they are
merely trying to cover every conceivable base. Still, they usually
fail for lack of enough words.

Maybe I should have that it makes them clearer rather than easier to understand. I do not
think that they are written to confuse people. That's just the way it seems to turn out.

Perhaps the biggest problem is the people who insist on amendments before passing laws, or
those who pass laws without ever reading them. Politicians rely a lot on the advise of
their aides and their party. Sadly, a lot of them are passed without the legislators
actually reading the laws that they voted on. It's shameful when you think about it. Last
week Bush said he was going to look into the requirement for all people entering the US to
have a valid passport. He had no idea that had been proposed, even though he signed the
bill. Look at the number of people who voted for the Patriot Act without voting for it.

Post by Gringo
Here's one example: my wife recently got a ticket in CA for not
wearing a seat belt in our truck. She WAS wearing it, the shoulder
strap was behind her back because of a recent neck operation and a
still-tender scar that the strap rubbed against. The cop nevertheless
wrote the ticket. I researched the statute when we got home, and
guess what, the seat belt law says not one word about HOW the SEAT
belt must be worn. So, she was entirely legal; as the clerk of court
laughed, "According to the regulation, if she had had the belt
strapped around one leg, unfortunately, she would have been legal."
Ticket tossed out.

That is quite interesting, but provides nothing to support your suggestion that laws are
contradictory. It does show that sometimes they need to be a little wordier so say
exactly what they want. It may be that the legislators assumed that wearing a seatbelts
meant wearing a complete and properly adjusted seat belt assembly. That is what Ontario
law requires, and it is written quite clearly. Like California Ontario law provides an
exemption for medical reasons if there is a certificate signed by a doctor. I had one of
those two years ago when I broke my collar bone.

The process in California must be quite different than ours. A court clerk has no
authority to quash a ticket for an issue like that. It would have to go to court and the
officer would give his evidence, then you or your wife could give your evidence and be
cross examined. Otherwise, a person could come into the court office and lie to the
clerk. I am sure I am not disillusioning you when I suggest that some would lie in court.

Post by Gringo

Post by Dave Smith
And, it seems, a bottle to keep her company.

Uncalled for, Dave. Unlike you. In all the disagreements we had with
some of the more rabid right wingers, not once did you ever attack a
poster personally-- I did, as the situation warranted-- but you never
did.

Sorry, but it it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck. Maybe we should be suggesting
that Joyce get her blood sugar level checked. Low sugar can cause symptoms similar to
drunkenness, so that might explain that poorly constructed set of sentences that made no
sense at all.

Post by Gringo
I defended a lady who has done no harm to anyone against slabbering
personal attacks on her character and intelligence; when the attackers
dumped on me in response, you can be sure that I counter attacked.
Rocky roadie, now, that boy is like a pig in a sty-- he loves it when
a bucket of puke is poured over his head. But, Noyce, she did no harm
to anyone.

She has a tendency to make unfounded allegations and to rant about things she simply does
not understand.

[Gringo]

Post by Dave Smith

Post by Gringo
Listen, you and I, we are on the same side on most issues. I don't
want to be pushed into attack/counterattack with you. I certainly do
not have the hours of time necessary to pore through regulations that
I do not need to. I assure you that my reading comprehension is fine.

Sorry, but it it was not in my intention to get in a attack/counterattack. Nor did I make
any inference about your reading comprehension. I merely acknowledged that legislation and
regulations can be difficult to read. Some sections refer directly to other regulations,
have numerous exemptions written into them, use definitions from other sections or other
pieces of legislation and have other issues that make them difficult to read and
understand.
I have no problem admitting that law is difficult to read. I have taught courses
to enforcement staff about the various pieces of legislation that we enforced. IMO,
Hours of Work regulation are fairly straightforward. There are exemptions for certain
types of operations and classes of vehicle, but no contradictions.

Post by Gringo
And I also assure you, that as every lawyer readily admits,
contracts and legislation contain scads of legalese whose sole purpose
is to confuse the masses. (Else, why the reams of small print in a
standard contract?) journalists who specialize in distilling all that
verbiage into understandable text earn a pretty good living. Now, you
claim it is added merely to aid comprehension. Not true, they are
merely trying to cover every conceivable base. Still, they usually
fail for lack of enough words.

Maybe I should have that it makes them clearer rather than easier to understand. I do not
think that they are written to confuse people. That's just the way it seems to turn out.
Perhaps the biggest problem is the people who insist on amendments before passing laws, or
those who pass laws without ever reading them. Politicians rely a lot on the advise of
their aides and their party. Sadly, a lot of them are passed without the legislators
actually reading the laws that they voted on. It's shameful when you think about it. Last
week Bush said he was going to look into the requirement for all people entering the US to
have a valid passport. He had no idea that had been proposed, even though he signed the
bill. Look at the number of people who voted for the Patriot Act without voting for it.

Post by Gringo
Here's one example: my wife recently got a ticket in CA for not
wearing a seat belt in our truck. She WAS wearing it, the shoulder
strap was behind her back because of a recent neck operation and a
still-tender scar that the strap rubbed against. The cop nevertheless
wrote the ticket. I researched the statute when we got home, and
guess what, the seat belt law says not one word about HOW the SEAT
belt must be worn. So, she was entirely legal; as the clerk of court
laughed, "According to the regulation, if she had had the belt
strapped around one leg, unfortunately, she would have been legal."
Ticket tossed out.

That is quite interesting, but provides nothing to support your suggestion that laws are
contradictory. It does show that sometimes they need to be a little wordier so say
exactly what they want. It may be that the legislators assumed that wearing a seatbelts
meant wearing a complete and properly adjusted seat belt assembly. That is what Ontario
law requires, and it is written quite clearly. Like California Ontario law provides an
exemption for medical reasons if there is a certificate signed by a doctor. I had one of
those two years ago when I broke my collar bone.
The process in California must be quite different than ours. A court clerk has no
authority to quash a ticket for an issue like that. It would have to go to court and the
officer would give his evidence, then you or your wife could give your evidence and be
cross examined. Otherwise, a person could come into the court office and lie to the
clerk. I am sure I am not disillusioning you when I suggest that some would lie in court.

The clerk went to the judge with it (I was on hold for about five
minutes), then came back with the order dismissing the charge.
Confirmation of some sort of the dismissal is supposed to be in the
mail. But ticket would have been $20 plus costs of, I think she said,
$7. No biggy, just the principal of the thing. Talk about having a
bad hair day. My wife took the wheel at Reno; at Truckee scale, CA
pulled her in for a complete inspection which took about 30 minutes
(no dings for either equipment or logs); a few miles further, CA
border checkpoint pulled her over to inspect the bills (about 10
minutes b4 they got around to it, and everything was kosher); about
two miles farther, the cop ticketed her for the seatbelt. Oh, and two
miles after she took over at Reno, it started snowing!

Post by Dave Smith

Post by Gringo

Post by Dave Smith
And, it seems, a bottle to keep her company.

Uncalled for, Dave. Unlike you. In all the disagreements we had with
some of the more rabid right wingers, not once did you ever attack a
poster personally-- I did, as the situation warranted-- but you never
did.

Sorry, but it it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck. Maybe we should be suggesting
that Joyce get her blood sugar level checked. Low sugar can cause symptoms similar to
drunkenness, so that might explain that poorly constructed set of sentences that made no
sense at all.

Post by Gringo
I defended a lady who has done no harm to anyone against slabbering
personal attacks on her character and intelligence; when the attackers
dumped on me in response, you can be sure that I counter attacked.
Rocky roadie, now, that boy is like a pig in a sty-- he loves it when
a bucket of puke is poured over his head. But, Noyce, she did no harm
to anyone.

She has a tendency to make unfounded allegations and to rant about things she simply does
not understand.

Gonna check out now, going back over the road for a few weeks. See ya!

[MTINSP]

Post by Gringo
Dave, really now, do you require me to break down all 1000+ pages of
driver's safety regs handbook and the equally thick hazmat rapid
response guidebook seeking a few words here or there that seem to
disagree with something printed somewhere else-- I assure you that
such instances do exist. Trying to cover every contingency leads to
bloated legalese in business contracts and government regulations.
Surely you don't deny that regulations as written in the books are
often confusing. Far as I'm concerned, every sentence of the damned
regulations book is ten or so words too damned long.

Gringo,
I've dealt with OSHA regulations (29 CFR), Nuclear Energy regulations (10
CFR), EPA regulations ( 40 CFR) among others. 49 CFR is probably the best
written regulations that we have. I'm sorry you think they are too
"complicated", but I think that says more about YOU than about the
regulations. I see nothing that confusing in them. Every job has its
regulations, not just trucking - you really SHOULD do some reading
sometimes. I would think as a truck driver, you would do your best to
understand the 49 CFR regulations but it is painfully obvious that you would
rather listen to billy bigrigger complain than find out what is real.

[Gringo]

Post by Joyce

Post by Gringo
Dave, really now, do you require me to break down all 1000+ pages of
driver's safety regs handbook and the equally thick hazmat rapid
response guidebook seeking a few words here or there that seem to
disagree with something printed somewhere else-- I assure you that
such instances do exist. Trying to cover every contingency leads to
bloated legalese in business contracts and government regulations.
Surely you don't deny that regulations as written in the books are
often confusing. Far as I'm concerned, every sentence of the damned
regulations book is ten or so words too damned long.

Gringo,
I've dealt with OSHA regulations (29 CFR), Nuclear Energy regulations (10
CFR), EPA regulations ( 40 CFR) among others. 49 CFR is probably the best
written regulations that we have. I'm sorry you think they are too
"complicated", but I think that says more about YOU than about the
regulations. I see nothing that confusing in them. Every job has its
regulations, not just trucking - you really SHOULD do some reading
sometimes. I would think as a truck driver, you would do your best to
understand the 49 CFR regulations but it is painfully obvious that you would
rather listen to billy bigrigger complain than find out what is real.

I do not need lectures from anyone re: my comprehension of CDL regs.
I have been driving for almost 19 years, only about 4 tickets
throughout and zero accidents. Only occasionally does my fleet kick a
logsheet back at me, for something minor like a missing date, etc. I
had 3 months of logs gone through by a CA inspector just last week,
and he couldn't find a thing to ding me for.

However, when I say "WE" I am referring to drivers as a race of
people. You who have undergone weeks of training with the regs can
claim all you like that they are written to a 6th grader's reading
comprehension level, it is just not true. Are you aware that 98% of
authors write to a grade school level-- they do if they wish their
books to be bought. Almost every time a driver changes fleets he is
forced to undergo yet another logbook class during orientation; you
should sit in on one and listen to the poor explanations given by
maybe book-smart but piss-poor communicators trying to teach drivers
how to log. The amount of just plain wrong info being passed on to
drivers is astonishing.

[Mail Hauler]

Post by Gringo
However, when I say "WE" I am referring to drivers as a race of
people.

What a blatant racist! How about us drivers of many different races all
doing the same job?
DUH!

[Roughrider50]

Post by Mail Hauler

Post by Gringo
However, when I say "WE" I am referring to drivers as a race of
people.

What a blatant racist! How about us drivers of many different races all
doing the same job?
DUH!

When do I get my 40 acres & a mule so I can quit driving? OOPS.....excuse me
wrong race :o)

[Gringo]

Post by Roughrider50

Post by Mail Hauler

Post by Gringo
However, when I say "WE" I am referring to drivers as a race of
people.

What a blatant racist! How about us drivers of many different races all
doing the same job?
DUH!

When do I get my 40 acres & a mule so I can quit driving? OOPS.....excuse me
wrong race :o)

Funny. I'm sure you at least understood the meaning of the sentence.,
my usage of the word.

[Gringo]

Post by Mail Hauler

Post by Gringo
However, when I say "WE" I am referring to drivers as a race of
people.

What a blatant racist! How about us drivers of many different races all
doing the same job?
DUH!

Damnit, are you really as dense as you pretend??? I used the word
"race" as a synonym for the word "class." The point I and others have
been trying to get across to some of you for quite a while is that OTR
truckers are rather like a distinct race of people, in that we are so
often judged by the jobs we have rather than by the strength of our
character.

[Joyce]

Maerick,,,

Gee, your new here and already got
your mouth running,,,,,,

so read the rest of the new posts,
I didn't understand what he was
explaining to me,, so don't get your
knickers in a knot.. might choke
something...


joyce

[Gunslinger]

Post by Joyce
What happens when you run our oat time
to work?
If you work for 3 days, and run out of time, why must you be penalized
for
working...
What do you think of this...?????

I think I don't really want to add yet more hours to an already
over-long day. I *would* however like to be adequately paid for those
hours I do work - INCLUDING the ones that don't generally show up on a
log book. Few other professions never get a raise, not even a COLA.
Trucker make less in real-world money that we did 10 or 20 years ago.

[Gringo]

Post by Gunslinger

Post by Joyce
What happens when you run our oat time
to work?
If you work for 3 days, and run out of time, why must you be penalized
for
working...
What do you think of this...?????

I think I don't really want to add yet more hours to an already
over-long day. I *would* however like to be adequately paid for those
hours I do work - INCLUDING the ones that don't generally show up on a
log book. Few other professions never get a raise, not even a COLA.
Trucker make less in real-world money that we did 10 or 20 years ago.

Amen to that, brother. Joyce was trying to say just that also--
defending the right of truckers to earn a decent living, and twenty
people young enough to be her grandchildren (some of them) jumped all
over her for her lack of writing skills.

[tscottme]

Post by Gunslinger
I think I don't really want to add yet more hours to an already
over-long day. I *would* however like to be adequately paid for those
hours I do work - INCLUDING the ones that don't generally show up on a
log book. Few other professions never get a raise, not even a COLA.
Trucker make less in real-world money that we did 10 or 20 years ago.

Few other "professions" allow anyone to become a member with 2-3 weeks
training and a willingness to stay away from home. Drivers should support
every attempt to make it more difficult to get a CDL or have a CDL valid for
OTR. Does anyone doubt that if there were 3 times as many CDL drivers
tomorrow what direction pay would move? Likewise, if there were only 1/3 as
many CDL drivers available tomorrow companies would pay more to get one of
the rare drivers. Freight would cost more to move, shippers would carefully
evaluate what freight needs to be moved by truck and what needs to be
consolidated and moved by train.

The best solution to driver pay/conditions is for the supply of drivers to
shrink and those drivers not to be replaced as easily. Just because someone
wants to drive doesn't mean it ought to pay.

[Gringo]

Post by tscottme

Post by Gunslinger
I think I don't really want to add yet more hours to an already
over-long day. I *would* however like to be adequately paid for those
hours I do work - INCLUDING the ones that don't generally show up on a
log book. Few other professions never get a raise, not even a COLA.
Trucker make less in real-world money that we did 10 or 20 years ago.

Few other "professions" allow anyone to become a member with 2-3 weeks
training and a willingness to stay away from home. Drivers should support
every attempt to make it more difficult to get a CDL or have a CDL valid for
OTR. Does anyone doubt that if there were 3 times as many CDL drivers
tomorrow what direction pay would move? Likewise, if there were only 1/3 as
many CDL drivers available tomorrow companies would pay more to get one of
the rare drivers. Freight would cost more to move, shippers would carefully
evaluate what freight needs to be moved by truck and what needs to be
consolidated and moved by train.
The best solution to driver pay/conditions is for the supply of drivers to
shrink and those drivers not to be replaced as easily. Just because someone
wants to drive doesn't mean it ought to pay.

For once, I wholeheartedly agree with you. If driver regs restricted
truckers to 40 hours in 7 days, after a long lag time, driver pay
would double in order to attract and retain drivers.

[Joyce]

All,,,,

DON'T SWEAT IT, JUST FORGET IT.

GEEZ.................JOYCE

[Brian Smith]

Post by Joyce
All,,,,
DON'T SWEAT IT, JUST FORGET IT.
GEEZ.................JOYCE

It's not a binary group.

[Alpha]

"Joyce" Is this your normal type question that only appeals to the bone
heads?

BECAUSE IT IS THE LAW........................

FATIGUE KILLS.................................

INNOCENT PEOPLE DIE..................
Dave

[MTINSP]

Post by Joyce
What happens when you run our oat time
to work?
If you work for 3 days, and run out of time, why must you be penalized
for
working...
If a trucker is not honest and runs and not
fill in the log book, that is a no no....
If he stays home, until he can run again
he loses money...
So, where do you make out in the money
field.....
So,this is a type of job you get to lose money, and are penalized for
working.

Joyce, I know you are posting this out of misguided sympathy for the truck
driver, but you REALLY have to start thinking about what you post!!!

If a guy runs out of hours in 3 days, he's been in TOTAL violation of the
law AND common sense!!!! My GOD!!! 70 hrs in 3 days????????

Post by Joyce
Only truckers can say that....no other
driver's have to..do they???????

????????????? The law applies to all truck drivers!!!

Post by Joyce
I mean does Brown, or Fed =x or
furniture delivery trucks have to, abide
by this garbage......? Does the Food
delivery trucks like Food LIon have to
do this ? I know that Wal Mart has to
abide with the law...

YES they do!!!!! What makes you think UPS or FedEx is above the law????

Post by Joyce
Where is the justice in this....because
truckers fall asleep at the wheel, causing
accident, this is the answer..

Joyce, truck crashes are on the rise!!! THERE IS A PROBLEM!!! And it isn't
just 4-wheelers who are dying!!!

Post by Joyce
So, he can stay home sleep and not make
a dollar,,,,,ok....that somehow doesn't
make any sense....

Joyce EVERY blue collar job used to have LONG hours in the past (miners,
factory workers, etc) however most of them figured out how to limit the
hours they work and still make money!! Truck drivers are the only ones who
haven't figured it out yet. Do you think that fact is lost on the
lawmakers?????

Post by Joyce
What do you think of this...?????
just a thought....joyce

Joyce, I think you need to broaden your horizens and read instead of just
listening to "truck driver's laments"! The laws are there because truck
drivers and companies just can't police themselves and they've been given
PLENTY of time to do that!!! On board recorders are coming because
EVERYONE, and not just the FMCSA, is sick and tired of this!!! On board
recorders are being proposed by MANY agencies for truck drivers, NOT JUST
FMCSA - so get used to the idea - they are coming and the reason is that
companies and drivers have a LONG track record of not giving a damn about
the damage they do on the roadways!!!

[Ga_Dispatcher]

Post by MTINSP
PLENTY of time to do that!!! On board recorders are coming because
EVERYONE, and not just the FMCSA, is sick and tired of this!!! On board
recorders are being proposed by MANY agencies for truck drivers, NOT JUST
FMCSA - so get used to the idea - they are coming and the reason is that
companies and drivers have a LONG track record of not giving a damn about
the damage they do on the roadways!!!

All carriers that run legal should be HAPPY to see on board recorders
being mandatory. Well...the cost is an issue but long term it's really
nothing compared to the long term benefits to the industry. All the
illegal folks will have to follow the rules the legit carriers have been
doing all along. There will be a lowering of available driving hours so
there will be a premium placed on the existing drivers/trucks....causing
rates/wages/etc to go up. What amazes me is that people can't see that
the on board recorders will reduce the supply of trucks/drivers by
cutting out those running extra<illegal> hours. Reduce the supply and
as demand grows or even remains the same...rates/prices go UP!

Safety is just a bonus in my view....increased profits alone should
drive the on board recorders into every truck.

[MTINSP]

Post by Ga_Dispatcher
All carriers that run legal should be HAPPY to see on board recorders
being mandatory. Well...the cost is an issue but long term it's really
nothing compared to the long term benefits to the industry. All the
illegal folks will have to follow the rules the legit carriers have been
doing all along. There will be a lowering of available driving hours so
there will be a premium placed on the existing drivers/trucks....causing
rates/wages/etc to go up. What amazes me is that people can't see that
the on board recorders will reduce the supply of trucks/drivers by
cutting out those running extra<illegal> hours. Reduce the supply and
as demand grows or even remains the same...rates/prices go UP!
Safety is just a bonus in my view....increased profits alone should
drive the on board recorders into every truck.

AND it will have the added advantage of making docks unload faster, because
when drivers finally stop lying about how long it takes to load and unload,
you can bet that warehouses will finally have to clean up their acts too.
Right now they get free warehouse space on the back of the trucks because
the drivers are SOOO willing to give it to them!!!

[Ga_Dispatcher]

Post by MTINSP
AND it will have the added advantage of making docks unload faster, because
when drivers finally stop lying about how long it takes to load and unload,
you can bet that warehouses will finally have to clean up their acts too.

And if they don't...the trucks will be charging detention time for the
wait. If a truck ends up losing a day's worth of driving time due to
loading/unloading...then that time will get billed to the overall cost
of the haul. If the truck would have billed 1000.00+ had it been
running...yet instead it used a day to load/unload...then that 1000
bucks gets added to the line haul rate. So shippers/receivers can either
speed up the process...or they can pay. The truck can't afford to sit
unpaid. Business smart carriers aren't sitting unpaid now...that seems
to he the business stupid OO's that put up with that kinda crap. Luckily
not all OO's do this...unfortunately too many do. OO's need to look back
at last years hurricane relief efforts to see how detention should pay
them. Fema was paying 800-1000.00 a DAY for reefers to sit in FL
holding ice for weeks at a time. All shippers that want trucks to sit
should understand that that time has a value..and they must pay for it
if they want the trucks to sit.

[MTINSP]

Post by Ga_Dispatcher
All shippers that want trucks to sit
should understand that that time has a value..and they must pay for it
if they want the trucks to sit.

Absolutely!! I worked at a warehouse and I know docks used to be reserved
for certain trucking companies even though there were other trucks out there
waiting to be unloaded. And I know that if the truck was willing to sit
there for a day, then the warehouse could reduce its costs - they knew where
the stuff was and they weren't paying the overhead on it - the driver was! -
even warehouse space isn't free!!

[Rocky Roads via AT&T]

MTINSP wrote in message ...

Post by MTINSP

Post by Ga_Dispatcher
All carriers that run legal should be HAPPY to see on board recorders
being mandatory. Well...the cost is an issue but long term it's really
nothing compared to the long term benefits to the industry. All the
illegal folks will have to follow the rules the legit carriers have been
doing all along. There will be a lowering of available driving hours so
there will be a premium placed on the existing drivers/trucks....causing
rates/wages/etc to go up. What amazes me is that people can't see that
the on board recorders will reduce the supply of trucks/drivers by
cutting out those running extra<illegal> hours. Reduce the supply and
as demand grows or even remains the same...rates/prices go UP!
Safety is just a bonus in my view....increased profits alone should
drive the on board recorders into every truck.

AND it will have the added advantage of making docks unload faster, because
when drivers finally stop lying about how long it takes to load and unload,
you can bet that warehouses will finally have to clean up their acts too.
Right now they get free warehouse space on the back of the trucks because
the drivers are SOOO willing to give it to them!!!

Karen,

YOU ARE AN IDIOT. You are not living in the real world. Maybe you should
take a job driving a flatbed and learn what you do not know.

You really expect people to run around trying to be in a hurry, when a
mistake made could cost someone's life.

Much of the steel put on and taken off of flatbeds could crush someone to
the point that you could not recognize them.

Rocky

[Alpha]

"Rocky Roads via AT&T" s that what happened to you? Crushed by steel?

Dave

[Gunslinger]

Post by MTINSP

Post by Ga_Dispatcher
All carriers that run legal should be HAPPY to see on board recorders
being mandatory. Well...the cost is an issue but long term it's really
nothing compared to the long term benefits to the industry. All the
illegal folks will have to follow the rules the legit carriers have been
doing all along. There will be a lowering of available driving hours so
there will be a premium placed on the existing drivers/trucks....causing
rates/wages/etc to go up. What amazes me is that people can't see that
the on board recorders will reduce the supply of trucks/drivers by
cutting out those running extra<illegal> hours. Reduce the supply and
as demand grows or even remains the same...rates/prices go UP!

Do you really believe this? Demand for trucks has steadily increased
over the past several years.... but where are those increased rates??

Post by MTINSP

Post by Ga_Dispatcher
Safety is just a bonus in my view....increased profits alone should
drive the on board recorders into every truck.

Won't happen. At least, not to any significant degree. If any actual
increase in revenue does come about (which I doubt), it won't be
enough to offset the initial costs of equipment, nor will it support
the extra levels of bureaucracy and red tape. Of course, the fines
levied for failure to comply might well offset the increase cost to
the multitudes of cops who will in the end be the only ones profiting
from the whole deal.

You seem to not understand that schemes like this are safety-related
ONLY on their face, to gain acceptance ("How can you not support this,
when it's all about safety??"). The central theme is really control,
not safety. And most schemes like this are supported by large carriers
only because they decrease competition by putting small fleets and
owner-operators out of business due to increased costs. A company with
20,000 trucks can absorb a LOT more increased costs and especially
initial equipment costs, than can a company with 1 truck, or 20. Think
about it: if you have 20,000 trucks and show a NET profit of
$1/truck/day, you're still doing pretty good. If you have 1 truck and
show a net of $1/day, you don't eat.

Post by MTINSP
AND it will have the added advantage of making docks unload faster, because
when drivers finally stop lying about how long it takes to load and unload,
you can bet that warehouses will finally have to clean up their acts too.
Right now they get free warehouse space on the back of the trucks because
the drivers are SOOO willing to give it to them!!!

Now I KNOW you're dreaming. A dock foreman won't give a damn about
making a truck wait, just because he can (sometimes). And if you think
he can't justify that to his superiors, well... like I said, you're
dreaming.

Post by MTINSP
And if they don't...the trucks will be charging detention time for the
wait.

Most will NOT do so. Why? because so many of the customers will refuse
to pay it. That happens now all too often; why do you think it would
change any time soon? The trucking company will bill the detention
time, sure. The customer will either refuse outright to pay it, or
will balk - whereupon the trucking company will back down in fear of
losing a customer. The ONLY way this will change significantly would
be if some sort of legislation making it mandatory should manage to be
passed - but that will never happen.

You guys must not ever have had to deal with the realities of the
trucking industry. Either that, or you're simply dreamers. The world
doesn't work the way your idealistic views seem to suggest it ought.


FWIW, I do get paid detention for waits with *some* customers, and
fuel surcharges for *all* customers.... but that isn't the case for
many companies out there - and especially not for many O/O's. But
trust me - the detention pay does not make up for potential lost
"productive" hours of actual driving. If EVERY trucking company out
there would charge a MINIMUM of $100/hour after ONE hour, and FORCE
EVERY customer to actually PAY it, then perhaps your black box schemes
might turn out to be a benefit for the industry. Unless and until that
happens - which it won't - there will be no "functional" black box in
a truck that I own or drive.

[Gringo]

Post by Gunslinger

Post by MTINSP

Post by Ga_Dispatcher
All carriers that run legal should be HAPPY to see on board recorders
being mandatory. Well...the cost is an issue but long term it's really
nothing compared to the long term benefits to the industry. All the
illegal folks will have to follow the rules the legit carriers have been
doing all along. There will be a lowering of available driving hours so
there will be a premium placed on the existing drivers/trucks....causing
rates/wages/etc to go up. What amazes me is that people can't see that
the on board recorders will reduce the supply of trucks/drivers by
cutting out those running extra<illegal> hours. Reduce the supply and
as demand grows or even remains the same...rates/prices go UP!

Do you really believe this? Demand for trucks has steadily increased
over the past several years.... but where are those increased rates??

Post by MTINSP

Post by Ga_Dispatcher
Safety is just a bonus in my view....increased profits alone should
drive the on board recorders into every truck.

Won't happen. At least, not to any significant degree. If any actual
increase in revenue does come about (which I doubt), it won't be
enough to offset the initial costs of equipment, nor will it support
the extra levels of bureaucracy and red tape. Of course, the fines
levied for failure to comply might well offset the increase cost to
the multitudes of cops who will in the end be the only ones profiting
from the whole deal.
You seem to not understand that schemes like this are safety-related
ONLY on their face, to gain acceptance ("How can you not support this,
when it's all about safety??"). The central theme is really control,
not safety. And most schemes like this are supported by large carriers
only because they decrease competition by putting small fleets and
owner-operators out of business due to increased costs. A company with
20,000 trucks can absorb a LOT more increased costs and especially
initial equipment costs, than can a company with 1 truck, or 20. Think
about it: if you have 20,000 trucks and show a NET profit of
$1/truck/day, you're still doing pretty good. If you have 1 truck and
show a net of $1/day, you don't eat.

Post by MTINSP
AND it will have the added advantage of making docks unload faster, because
when drivers finally stop lying about how long it takes to load and unload,
you can bet that warehouses will finally have to clean up their acts too.
Right now they get free warehouse space on the back of the trucks because
the drivers are SOOO willing to give it to them!!!

Now I KNOW you're dreaming. A dock foreman won't give a damn about
making a truck wait, just because he can (sometimes). And if you think
he can't justify that to his superiors, well... like I said, you're
dreaming.

Post by MTINSP
And if they don't...the trucks will be charging detention time for the
wait.

Most will NOT do so. Why? because so many of the customers will refuse
to pay it. That happens now all too often; why do you think it would
change any time soon? The trucking company will bill the detention
time, sure. The customer will either refuse outright to pay it, or
will balk - whereupon the trucking company will back down in fear of
losing a customer. The ONLY way this will change significantly would
be if some sort of legislation making it mandatory should manage to be
passed - but that will never happen.
You guys must not ever have had to deal with the realities of the
trucking industry. Either that, or you're simply dreamers. The world
doesn't work the way your idealistic views seem to suggest it ought.
FWIW, I do get paid detention for waits with *some* customers, and
fuel surcharges for *all* customers.... but that isn't the case for
many companies out there - and especially not for many O/O's. But
trust me - the detention pay does not make up for potential lost
"productive" hours of actual driving. If EVERY trucking company out
there would charge a MINIMUM of $100/hour after ONE hour, and FORCE
EVERY customer to actually PAY it, then perhaps your black box schemes
might turn out to be a benefit for the industry. Unless and until that
happens - which it won't - there will be no "functional" black box in
a truck that I own or drive.

Eloquently said.

[Rocky Roads via AT&T]

Ga_Dispatcher wrote in message ...

Post by Ga_Dispatcher

Post by MTINSP
PLENTY of time to do that!!! On board recorders are coming because
EVERYONE, and not just the FMCSA, is sick and tired of this!!! On board
recorders are being proposed by MANY agencies for truck drivers, NOT JUST
FMCSA - so get used to the idea - they are coming and the reason is that
companies and drivers have a LONG track record of not giving a damn about
the damage they do on the roadways!!!

All carriers that run legal should be HAPPY to see on board recorders
being mandatory. Well...the cost is an issue but long term it's really
nothing compared to the long term benefits to the industry. All the
illegal folks will have to follow the rules the legit carriers have been
doing all along. There will be a lowering of available driving hours so
there will be a premium placed on the existing drivers/trucks....causing
rates/wages/etc to go up. What amazes me is that people can't see that
the on board recorders will reduce the supply of trucks/drivers by
cutting out those running extra<illegal> hours. Reduce the supply and
as demand grows or even remains the same...rates/prices go UP!
Safety is just a bonus in my view....increased profits alone should
drive the on board recorders into every truck.

You are as crazy as Dave Ruff, maybe even more so.

There are times when you take 15 minutes too much on a break or at a
pickup/delivery and end your day in 14.25 hours. Without the onboard
recorders, you can simply move that 15 minutes, with the onboard recorders
you will be f_cked.

If they want On board recorders, they should also kill that 14 hour rule.

Rocky

[Alpha]

"Rocky Roads via AT&T" Another Gem

Dave

[Gringo]

Post by Ga_Dispatcher

Post by MTINSP
PLENTY of time to do that!!! On board recorders are coming because
EVERYONE, and not just the FMCSA, is sick and tired of this!!! On board
recorders are being proposed by MANY agencies for truck drivers, NOT JUST
FMCSA - so get used to the idea - they are coming and the reason is that
companies and drivers have a LONG track record of not giving a damn about
the damage they do on the roadways!!!

All carriers that run legal should be HAPPY to see on board recorders
being mandatory. Well...the cost is an issue but long term it's really
nothing compared to the long term benefits to the industry. All the
illegal folks will have to follow the rules the legit carriers have been
doing all along. There will be a lowering of available driving hours so
there will be a premium placed on the existing drivers/trucks....causing
rates/wages/etc to go up. What amazes me is that people can't see that
the on board recorders will reduce the supply of trucks/drivers by
cutting out those running extra<illegal> hours. Reduce the supply and
as demand grows or even remains the same...rates/prices go UP!
Safety is just a bonus in my view....increased profits alone should
drive the on board recorders into every truck.

You are wrong about that. The onboard computers can be manipulated,
as any honest, experienced werner driver will tell you.

They are not coming as quickly as you think, because more fleets
oppose than favor. ATA spends banksful of money to defeat legislation
that effects their bottom line. They are in favor of truck 55 mph
speed limits because they cannot now compete very well against fleets
that can handle time sensitive freight in a reliable manner.

[Rocky Roads via AT&T]

What happens when you run our of time to work?

---snipped, but good ---

What do you think of this...?????

just a thought....joyce


Joyce,

I am starting to like you again. You do your best to stay within an hour of
when something happened and make sure never to drive when you are tired.

The dumb thing there is, if you take a break so you can drive rested, it
might put you over the 14 hours, but it probably prevented an accident.
Take your pick.

Rocky - The above is coming from someone that gets a safety bonus