Discussion:
Need some advice
(too old to reply)
Janet
2003-09-08 01:45:20 UTC
Permalink
I work for a packaging company in upstate New York in Human Resources. Due
to the voluntary quit of our senior driver, overseeing the drivers has
fallen upon my shoulders.

I have been given the directive by our President to make sure that our
drivers are driving legal in regards to hours of service, log books,
maintenance schedules, brake checks, etc. I've read through plenty of
literature and have learned much about the topic, but still have a lot to
learn.

My question is: how does one drive a 6 hour trip legally? We deliver every
week to a major chocolate manufacturer in Reading Pennsylvania. The drivers
tend to drive the 6 hours, sleep for 2 hours in the sleeper berth while they
are being unloading, etc., then they turn around and drive the 6 hours back,
which of course is over the 10 hour limit.

The drivers drive solo. They tell me that when they are an hour or 2 from
home, they are not going to stop and sleep in the truck, they want to get
home and sleep in their own bed, which I understand, but which is illegal.

What is the best way to handle this situation? Any way around this?
Thanks for your replies.

Janet
John Kelly
2003-09-08 02:13:02 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 01:45:20 GMT, "Janet"
Post by Janet
My question is: how does one drive a 6 hour trip legally? We deliver every
week to a major chocolate manufacturer in Reading Pennsylvania. The drivers
tend to drive the 6 hours, sleep for 2 hours in the sleeper berth while they
are being unloading, etc., then they turn around and drive the 6 hours back,
which of course is over the 10 hour limit.
The drivers drive solo. They tell me that when they are an hour or 2 from
home, they are not going to stop and sleep in the truck, they want to get
home and sleep in their own bed, which I understand, but which is illegal.
That's why a log book is also known as a "comic book." Even DOT
officers have been known to call it a comic book.
Post by Janet
What is the best way to handle this situation?
Tell the drivers to submit logs without violations, and don't ask how
they actually drove the trip. That is of course, assuming there is no
paper trail like toll receipts with timestamps, or a qualcomm location
tracking system, which might contradict their log.
Post by Janet
Any way around this?
Not as long as bureaucrats and lawyers write rules about a job they
have never done themselves.
skidflap
2003-09-08 03:26:56 UTC
Permalink
im not sure how legal it was but was told by the company that if i was 2 hrs
away from the yard i could crawl in the sleeper for 2 hrs and finish the
trip after that rest.
that was the last and first job where i had a sleeper:}
my 2 cents
--
Skidflap

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
Post by John Kelly
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 01:45:20 GMT, "Janet"
Post by Janet
My question is: how does one drive a 6 hour trip legally? We deliver every
week to a major chocolate manufacturer in Reading Pennsylvania. The drivers
tend to drive the 6 hours, sleep for 2 hours in the sleeper berth while they
are being unloading, etc., then they turn around and drive the 6 hours back,
which of course is over the 10 hour limit.
The drivers drive solo. They tell me that when they are an hour or 2 from
home, they are not going to stop and sleep in the truck, they want to get
home and sleep in their own bed, which I understand, but which is illegal.
That's why a log book is also known as a "comic book." Even DOT
officers have been known to call it a comic book.
Post by Janet
What is the best way to handle this situation?
Tell the drivers to submit logs without violations, and don't ask how
they actually drove the trip. That is of course, assuming there is no
paper trail like toll receipts with timestamps, or a qualcomm location
tracking system, which might contradict their log.
Post by Janet
Any way around this?
Not as long as bureaucrats and lawyers write rules about a job they
have never done themselves.
tscottme
2003-09-08 11:34:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by skidflap
im not sure how legal it was but was told by the company that if i was 2 hrs
away from the yard i could crawl in the sleeper for 2 hrs and finish the
trip after that rest.
that was the last and first job where i had a sleeper:}
my 2 cents
--
Skidflap
After you have accumulated 10 hours of driving time you can't drive
again until you have accumulated 8 hours off-duty or in the sleeper.
There is the "emergency 2 hour rule" but that doesn't apply here.

--

Scott
--------
"the Arabs should remember that they invaded and occupied important
parts of Europe hundreds of years before the Crusades wars. "
Zuheir Abdallah-columnist for the London-based Arabic daily Al-Hayat
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD55103
Kato26
2003-09-08 11:36:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by skidflap
im not sure how legal it was but was told by the company that if i was 2 hrs
away from the yard i could crawl in the sleeper for 2 hrs and finish the
trip after that rest.
that was the last and first job where i had a sleeper:}
my 2 cents
--
Skidflap
Not even a little bit legal.
Janet
2003-09-08 11:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Thanks so much to everyone who responded to my question. I printed out your
responses and will request a meeting with the President today. Most
helpful, thanks again.

Janet


">
Post by Janet
My question is: how does one drive a 6 hour trip legally? We deliver every
week to a major chocolate manufacturer in Reading Pennsylvania. The drivers
tend to drive the 6 hours, sleep for 2 hours in the sleeper berth while they
are being unloading, etc., then they turn around and drive the 6 hours back,
which of course is over the 10 hour limit.
The drivers drive solo. They tell me that when they are an hour or 2 from
home, they are not going to stop and sleep in the truck, they want to get
home and sleep in their own bed, which I understand, but which is illegal.
Post by Janet
What is the best way to handle this situation?
Mopar Doctor
2003-09-08 14:43:24 UTC
Permalink
One way to fix your problem would be to have a driver haul a load from each
end of the run and switch loads part way. I had a friend that hauled a load
that went from Everett to Spokane every day and back. He met up with The
Spokane driver half way across the state and switched trailers and headed
back.

Mopar Doctor
Truckinsp
2003-09-08 13:09:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Kelly
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 01:45:20 GMT, "Janet"
Post by Janet
My question is: how does one drive a 6 hour trip legally? We deliver every
week to a major chocolate manufacturer in Reading Pennsylvania. The drivers
tend to drive the 6 hours, sleep for 2 hours in the sleeper berth while they
are being unloading, etc., then they turn around and drive the 6 hours back,
which of course is over the 10 hour limit.
The drivers drive solo. They tell me that when they are an hour or 2 from
home, they are not going to stop and sleep in the truck, they want to get
home and sleep in their own bed, which I understand, but which is illegal.
Janet,
If you allow your drivers to violate the 10 hr rule, your company could be
fined BIG TIME by the Feds.....you need to go to www.fmcsa.dot.gov and click on
the enforcement activities... here's a link

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safetyprogs/reports/default.htm
Post by John Kelly
That's why a log book is also known as a "comic book." Even DOT
officers have been known to call it a comic book.
Maybe so, but that comic book can sure hurt the company that tolerates it...
Post by John Kelly
Post by Janet
What is the best way to handle this situation?
You need to call your drivers in and tell them that they MUST drive legal, it
is their best interest and YOUR best interest
Post by John Kelly
Tell the drivers to submit logs without violations, and don't ask how
they actually drove the trip. That is of course, assuming there is no
paper trail like toll receipts with timestamps, or a qualcomm location
tracking system, which might contradict their log.
THIS IS BAD ADVICE.....when I do CR's, I can also look at mileage, timecards,
etc, anything the company has, to determine if they are allowing their driver's
to falsify logs .........and then the fines start building if I find a company
that has been doing that......the drivers may be smart enough to fool the scale
people who DON'T have access to all the records, but they aren't smart enough
to fool us when we come into the company and start looking around......
Post by John Kelly
Post by Janet
Any way around this?
Not as long as bureaucrats and lawyers write rules about a job they
have never done themselves.
Well, you aren't smart enough to know, but it is because of what drivers did to
the roadways that we have those laws and lawyers and beaurocrats.....go check
out the carnage on the highways in the 70's.....sorry, drivers and companies,
but if you can't control yourselves, someone will......
John Kelly
2003-09-08 15:47:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
Post by John Kelly
Tell the drivers to submit logs without violations, and don't ask how
they actually drove the trip. That is of course, assuming there is no
paper trail like toll receipts with timestamps, or a qualcomm location
tracking system, which might contradict their log.
THIS IS BAD ADVICE.....when I do CR's, I can also look at mileage, timecards,
etc, anything the company has, to determine if they are allowing their driver's
to falsify logs .........and then the fines start building if I find a company
that has been doing that......the drivers may be smart enough to fool the scale
people who DON'T have access to all the records, but they aren't smart enough
to fool us when we come into the company and start looking around......
Drivers paid by the mile don't generally have timecards. As for
mileage, a driver with a pocket calculator can figure out how to make
his log match the trip mileage, so that it will pass an audit.
Post by Truckinsp
Post by John Kelly
Post by Janet
Any way around this?
Not as long as bureaucrats and lawyers write rules about a job they
have never done themselves.
Well, you aren't smart enough to know, but it is because of what drivers did to
the roadways that we have those laws and lawyers and beaurocrats.....go check
out the carnage on the highways in the 70's.....sorry, drivers and companies,
but if you can't control yourselves, someone will......
I don't claim to be smart. But I have enough experience to know there
are drivers able to keep a comic book that will pass any audit.
Truckinsp
2003-09-08 16:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
Post by Truckinsp
Post by John Kelly
Tell the drivers to submit logs without violations, and don't ask how
they actually drove the trip. That is of course, assuming there is no
paper trail like toll receipts with timestamps, or a qualcomm location
tracking system, which might contradict their log.
THIS IS BAD ADVICE.....when I do CR's, I can also look at mileage,
timecards,
Post by Truckinsp
etc, anything the company has, to determine if they are allowing their
driver's
Post by Truckinsp
to falsify logs .........and then the fines start building if I find a
company
Post by Truckinsp
that has been doing that......the drivers may be smart enough to fool the
scale
Post by Truckinsp
people who DON'T have access to all the records, but they aren't smart
enough
Post by Truckinsp
to fool us when we come into the company and start looking around......
Drivers paid by the mile don't generally have timecards.
BS....I've done a lot of CRs and the company usually generates a timecard for
the driver and they use that timecard to calculate PAY for the driver to
satisfy IRS requirements...in addition to having the copy of the driver's
log...and we get to look at ALL of that!!!
Post by Truckinsp
As for
mileage, a driver with a pocket calculator can figure out how to make
his log match the trip mileage, so that it will pass an audit.
You'd think so, wouldn't you....but then how do you falsify the shipping
documents, the fuel receipts, the phone calls you make to your company, and
LOTS and LOTS of other documents....and btw, YOU may not get a timed receipt
for your fuel, but stations DO time the fuel stops and your company DOES have
that....if they don't, we request that they get them for us immediately....and
they always do......

Drivers always think they are so SMART that they can fool the scale people,
until we come in and audit the company, and then they get fired.......companies
would rather fire a driver than get the high fines the feds put out......
Post by Truckinsp
Post by Truckinsp
Post by John Kelly
Post by Janet
Any way around this?
Not as long as bureaucrats and lawyers write rules about a job they
have never done themselves.
Well, you aren't smart enough to know, but it is because of what drivers did
to
Post by Truckinsp
the roadways that we have those laws and lawyers and beaurocrats.....go
check
Post by Truckinsp
out the carnage on the highways in the 70's.....sorry, drivers and
companies,
Post by Truckinsp
but if you can't control yourselves, someone will......
I don't claim to be smart. But I have enough experience to know there
are drivers able to keep a comic book that will pass any audit.
LOLOLOL....you keep thinking that and start looking for your next job
now.....sooner or later your company is going to figure out that YOU are a
liability....
Janet
2003-09-08 16:28:45 UTC
Permalink
Thanks John. What is your job title?

Janet
Post by Truckinsp
If you allow your drivers to violate the 10 hr rule, your company could be
fined BIG TIME by the Feds.....you need to go to www.fmcsa.dot.gov and click on
the enforcement activities... here's a link
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safetyprogs/reports/default.htm
Post by John Kelly
That's why a log book is also known as a "comic book." Even DOT
officers have been known to call it a comic book.
Maybe so, but that comic book can sure hurt the company that tolerates it...
Post by John Kelly
Post by Janet
What is the best way to handle this situation?
You need to call your drivers in and tell them that they MUST drive legal, it
is their best interest and YOUR best interest
Post by John Kelly
Tell the drivers to submit logs without violations, and don't ask how
they actually drove the trip. That is of course, assuming there is no
paper trail like toll receipts with timestamps, or a qualcomm location
tracking system, which might contradict their log.
THIS IS BAD ADVICE.....when I do CR's, I can also look at mileage, timecards,
etc, anything the company has, to determine if they are allowing their driver's
to falsify logs .........and then the fines start building if I find a company
that has been doing that......the drivers may be smart enough to fool the scale
people who DON'T have access to all the records, but they aren't smart enough
to fool us when we come into the company and start looking around......
Post by John Kelly
Post by Janet
Any way around this?
Not as long as bureaucrats and lawyers write rules about a job they
have never done themselves.
Well, you aren't smart enough to know, but it is because of what drivers did to
the roadways that we have those laws and lawyers and beaurocrats.....go check
out the carnage on the highways in the 70's.....sorry, drivers and companies,
but if you can't control yourselves, someone will......
John Kelly
2003-09-08 16:57:11 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:28:45 GMT, "Janet"
Post by Janet
Thanks John. What is your job title?
Janet
Truck Driver.
Sarge
2003-09-09 00:44:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safetyprogs/reports/default.htm
I looked at some of that and I have a question. Has the US been able to
collect fines from the Mexican trucking companies? I saw one that was
over $500,000.00.

Sarge
--
If it walks like a duck ...... well you know the rest ....
http://dangerousdannywilliams.com/
Dave Smith
2003-09-09 01:28:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sarge
Post by Truckinsp
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safetyprogs/reports/default.htm
I looked at some of that and I have a question. Has the US been able to
collect fines from the Mexican trucking companies? I saw one that was
over $500,000.00.
Ontario uses the Commercial Vehicle Operator Registration (CVOR) system to
do that. All commercial vehicles must be operating under a valid CVOR
certificate. If a company fails to pay their fines, their CVOR is suspended
and they cannot operate CMVs in the province. They also get points for all
convictions and OOS situations. They can face fleet limitations or
suspension of CVOR when they accumulate too many points.

It has been a successful program. Most companies would rather pay fines
than get the points on their record.
Truckinsp
2003-09-09 02:29:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sarge
Post by Truckinsp
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safetyprogs/reports/default.htm
I looked at some of that and I have a question. Has the US been able to
collect fines from the Mexican trucking companies? I saw one that was
over $500,000.00.
Sarge
If a company does not pay it's fine, an out of service order is issued for the
company meaning that it is not allowed to travel on US highways...
Sarge
2003-09-09 04:00:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
Post by Sarge
Post by Truckinsp
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safetyprogs/reports/default.htm
I looked at some of that and I have a question. Has the US been able
to collect fines from the Mexican trucking companies? I saw one that
was over $500,000.00.
Sarge
If a company does not pay it's fine, an out of service order is issued
for the company meaning that it is not allowed to travel on US
highways...
To Truckinsp & Dave Smith,

I'm glad to hear it is administered to all trucks/companies on OUR high
(US&Canada)highways. I'd hate to think of the safety hazards not to
mention what the oposite would say to people that are doing it the right
way.

Thanks,
Sarge
--
If it walks like a duck ...... well you know the rest ....
http://dangerousdannywilliams.com/
John Morgan
2003-09-09 13:13:49 UTC
Permalink
"Truckinsp" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@mb-m13.aol.com...
<polite snipping>
If a company does not pay it's fine, an out of service order is issued for
the
Post by Truckinsp
company meaning that it is not allowed to travel on US highways...
See what you know? Pedo has already told us that if you don't agree with
your OOS, just drive off, and then sue them when they come after you.

Heh, heh, heh!

Can't WAIT to see that one.
PirateJohn
2003-09-09 04:31:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sarge
I looked at some of that and I have a question. Has the US been able to
collect fines from the Mexican trucking companies? I saw one that was
over $500,000.00.
How does a "Mexican" company run up fines? I was under the impression that
allowing US tractors into Mexico and Mexican trucks into the USA was a
provision of NAFTA that had *NOT* been implemented by the USA.

Also, anyone who thinks that Mexico is the same country that it was 20 or even
5 years ago needs to take a trip into the country. I was in Monterrey about
1.5 months ago and the trucks down there are pretty impressive. Mercedes
Freightliner had about the fanciest dealership that you've ever seen a bit
south of Monterrey and most tractors are new, clean, and modern. You do see
older trucks, especially in the rural areas, but on the main roads the quality
is comparable to anything that you will see in the USA.



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Looks At Forty.
Truckinsp
2003-09-09 07:23:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by PirateJohn
Post by Sarge
I looked at some of that and I have a question. Has the US been able to
collect fines from the Mexican trucking companies? I saw one that was
over $500,000.00.
How does a "Mexican" company run up fines? I was under the impression that
allowing US tractors into Mexico and Mexican trucks into the USA was a
provision of NAFTA that had *NOT* been implemented by the USA.
There are Mexican companies who deliver freight in the border states. If they
drive on US highways, then they have to meet the US requirements, if they do
not, they are fined. If they do not pay the fines, then they cannot drive on
US highways.
Post by PirateJohn
Also, anyone who thinks that Mexico is the same country that it was 20 or even
5 years ago needs to take a trip into the country. I was in Monterrey about
1.5 months ago and the trucks down there are pretty impressive. Mercedes
Freightliner had about the fanciest dealership that you've ever seen a bit
south of Monterrey and most tractors are new, clean, and modern. You do see
older trucks, especially in the rural areas, but on the main roads the quality
is comparable to anything that you will see in the USA.
Baloney!!! Go down to one of the border crossings and watch.
Post by PirateJohn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Looks At Forty.
PirateJohn
2003-09-09 13:14:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
Baloney!!! Go down to one of the border crossings and watch.
Let me get this straight. You're going to tell me that I was wrong, when I was
there and have the photos to prove it?

You need to be more accurate with your observations, pal. Where and when were
you inspecting those vehicles?

You and I both know that to operate on US highways any vehicle has to meet US
standards. You may have seen local vehicles delivering to a holding area on
the border that weren't in good shape. The steady stream of tractors that I
saw between Monterrey and Nuevo Laredo, most of them pulling US trailers, were
generally in as good a condition as anything that you will see in the USA.


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"Mother, mother ocean... I have heard your call" - Jimmy Buffett, A Pirate
Looks At Forty.
Truckinsp
2003-09-09 13:36:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by PirateJohn
Post by Truckinsp
Baloney!!! Go down to one of the border crossings and watch.
Let me get this straight. You're going to tell me that I was wrong, when I was
there and have the photos to prove it?
You need to be more accurate with your observations, pal. Where and when were
you inspecting those vehicles?
You and I both know that to operate on US highways any vehicle has to meet US
standards. You may have seen local vehicles delivering to a holding area on
the border that weren't in good shape. The steady stream of tractors that I
saw between Monterrey and Nuevo Laredo, most of them pulling US trailers, were
generally in as good a condition as anything that you will see in the USA.
Just because you've seen a truck or two DOES NOT give you an accurate picture
of the the Mexican trucking industry.....like I said, go down to the border
crossings and watch....there aren't enough inspectors on the border to turn
them all back and I've caught a few of them myself......

So now let me get this straight, just because YOU'VE seen a couple of pretty
trucks, you know it all, whereas I who have access to the records and inspect
trucks all day can't tell beans....hmmmm
Post by PirateJohn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Looks At Forty.
PirateJohn
2003-09-09 21:44:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
So now let me get this straight, just because YOU'VE seen a couple of pretty
trucks, you know it all, whereas I who have access to the records and inspect
trucks all day can't tell beans....hmmmm
Bubba, I spent 4 days motorcycling around that area, chatting with the drivers
and bus operators, and getting to know the people. And that's on top of 5 years
worth of trips into Mexico. And I've spent about a decade as a driver and owner
of my own company.

And Bubba ... I was there partially on a pleasure trip but also making business
contacts. So don't give me this crap about 'watching a few trucks.' I think
that, based on this trip, we've put together an order at a plant being
constructed in the DF that will keep another plant in Newh Yawk running for
several more weeks. I'm trying to expand one company's market into Mexico
right now and taking a hard look at importing another commodity from Mexico for
another venture.

No, I don't know it all. And you clearly don't either. Without being rude,
I'm willing to stipulate that you are an expert when it comes to crawling
around on urine smelling asphalt to inspect the underside of a greasy truck,
but when it comes to truck driving skills, boat loading skills, a degree in
accounting and plenty of high level professional work, many years as a network
geek, an accomplished background as a motorcyclist, entrepreneur, business
manager, traveler, and general all around fun person to be around, then I kick
your ass. And I mean that in a nice way.

So when you get your butt off of your crawler and out from underneath that
truck you can talk to me on my terms.

I'm willing to meet you half way but as I said, based on my recent trip to
Monterrey, and that's on top of about 5 years of annual trips to various
Mexican cities, the current quality of the trucks meets US standards from where
I sit.

If you know something specific then be more specific. Hell, educate us! But
you aren't going to make your point with me by telling half truths, untruths,
showing bigotry against Mexican nationals, nor by making unsubstantiated smart
assed wisecracks.

My photos of this trip are at

http://www.fototime.com/inv/66CFE831BC0A959

There are a handful of truck photos, bunches of street scenes, and two photos
at dealerships. I'll let the people reading this group decide for themselves.

Oh, Mexico is still definitely a 2nd World country. But it's rapidly emerging
from 3rd World status. And compared to Europe, I'd say that the transport
industry in the USA is at 2nd World status anyway, so there's more parity
between the USA and Mexico than most people realize.

I await your comments as long as they are civil and educational. Because you
aren't the dumbest person that writes into this newsgroup by any stretch of the
imagination. If you have constructive business-like comments to make about
trade and truckin' across the Mexican border I'd like to hear it.




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Truckinsp
2003-09-09 23:27:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by PirateJohn
No, I don't know it all. And you clearly don't either. Without being rude,
I'm willing to stipulate that you are an expert when it comes to crawling
around on urine smelling asphalt to inspect the underside of a greasy truck,
but when it comes to truck driving skills, boat loading skills, a degree in
accounting and plenty of high level professional work, many years as a network
geek, an accomplished background as a motorcyclist, entrepreneur, business
manager, traveler, and general all around fun person to be around, then I kick
your ass. And I mean that in a nice way.
Yea all of us inspectors are just stupid jerks who couldn't get a job anywhere
else......I left a job as an engineer at a nuke plant to do this job because
working in law enforcement was always my dream....and I've met many other
inspectors with better educations that mine, so don't blast your great
intellect at me...and I've met MANY truck drivers who were former lawyers,
cops, engineers, computer specialists.....drivers AREN'T stupid people who
couldn't get another job either, sometimes you just got to do what you
love.....
and I don't treat drivers like stupid people, I enjoy conversing with most of
them!
Post by PirateJohn
So when you get your butt off of your crawler and out from underneath that
truck you can talk to me on my terms.
And exactly what would those be?????
Post by PirateJohn
I'm willing to meet you half way but as I said, based on my recent trip to
Monterrey, and that's on top of about 5 years of annual trips to various
Mexican cities, the current quality of the trucks meets US standards from where
I sit.
OK....so you've been to Mexico, did you actually spend TIME looking at all the
trucks, or just the pretty ones? TX troopers will tell you that in the last
few years, Mexicans have been importing every piece of crap they could get
their hands on in terms of tractors and trailers getting ready for the opening
of the border......and I assume they know since they are the ones actually
WORKING the area....and yes, I HAVE caught MEXICAN trucks outside the corridor,
and most of those trucks were CRAP! I don't think I've ever passed a Mexican
truck that I've caught, and that isn't bigotry, that is fact.
Post by PirateJohn
If you know something specific then be more specific. Hell, educate us! But
you aren't going to make your point with me by telling half truths, untruths,
showing bigotry against Mexican nationals, nor by making unsubstantiated smart
assed wisecracks.
I have never been bigoted against Mexicans or any other race, I am only bigoted
against people who use other people or set them up....

OK! Here's one from the former(?) attorney general....

http://www.stp.uh.edu/vol61/951117/3c.html

How about this one?

http://www.mexico-info.com/leadstories/chron/trucks.htm

The numbers are about the same as the TX troopers tell me.....you know, the
guys who actually have to deal with the MX trucks on a day to day basis....and
remember these numbers are based on day cabs, not OTR and we know from
experience, that OTR's generally have more problems....
then there is this one....
http://www.corpwatch.org/bulletins/PBD.jsp?articleid=452

How many more do you need?
Post by PirateJohn
My photos of this trip are at
http://www.fototime.com/inv/66CFE831BC0A959
Sorry, I can't look at your pictures, but I DO NOT accept cookies from any
source.....
Post by PirateJohn
There are a handful of truck photos, bunches of street scenes, and two photos
at dealerships. I'll let the people reading this group decide for themselves.
Fair enough!
Post by PirateJohn
Oh, Mexico is still definitely a 2nd World country. But it's rapidly emerging
from 3rd World status. And compared to Europe, I'd say that the transport
industry in the USA is at 2nd World status anyway, so there's more parity
between the USA and Mexico than most people realize.
I await your comments as long as they are civil and educational. Because you
aren't the dumbest person that writes into this newsgroup by any stretch of the
imagination. If you have constructive business-like comments to make about
trade and truckin' across the Mexican border I'd like to hear it.
I have NO problem with Mexican trucks coming into the US AS LONG AS they are
willing to meet the US requirements, unfortunately at the moment, they are not
ready to do so.
Post by PirateJohn
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Dave Smith
2003-09-10 00:09:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
Yea all of us inspectors are just stupid jerks who couldn't get a job anywhere
else......I left a job as an engineer at a nuke plant to do this job because
working in law enforcement was always my dream....and I've met many other
inspectors with better educations that mine, so don't blast your great
intellect at me...
I have an Honours Degree in Psychology. I worked as a truck driver in the
maintenance department and was promoted the senior equipment operator in our
district within 2 1/2 years. I never pictured myself in law enforcement but found
it to be interesting and challenging. It is a heck of a lot more interesting than
driving. There was no money in the field that I trained in, but I am already
lining up something in that field for after my early retirement next spring.
Post by Truckinsp
and I've met MANY truck drivers who were former lawyers,
cops, engineers, computer specialists.....drivers AREN'T stupid people who
couldn't get another job either, sometimes you just got to do what you
love.....
and I don't treat drivers like stupid people, I enjoy conversing with most of
them!
I have met a lot of interesting and well educated truck drivers during my years of
enforcement. For the last 6 years I have been working primarily with bus
enforcement. A lot of bus drivers are retired from interesting careers and who
prefer to spend their time touring the country and getting paid for it. A lot of
bus drivers are ex cops.
Post by Truckinsp
Post by PirateJohn
So when you get your butt off of your crawler and out from underneath that
truck you can talk to me on my terms.
And exactly what would those be?????
He's probably one of those responsible for the urine stained inspection areas.
Post by Truckinsp
Post by PirateJohn
I'm willing to meet you half way but as I said, based on my recent trip to
Monterrey, and that's on top of about 5 years of annual trips to various
Mexican cities, the current quality of the trucks meets US standards from where
I sit.
Geeze, I wonder how those Mexican trucks would compare with ours. While we have
our share of low lifes running locally, our international carriers tend to run
better equipment than their American counterparts. Trucks from the southern US,
especially Texas, have hard time getting past one of our scales because our
experience with them has shown that they tend to be pretty shabby.
PirateJohn
2003-09-10 02:44:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
Post by Truckinsp
Yea all of us inspectors are just stupid jerks who couldn't get a job
anywhere
Post by Truckinsp
else......I left a job as an engineer at a nuke plant to do this job
because
Post by Truckinsp
working in law enforcement was always my dream....and I've met many other
inspectors with better educations that mine, so don't blast your great
intellect at me...
I have an Honours Degree in Psychology. I worked as a truck driver in the
maintenance department and was promoted the senior equipment operator in our
district within 2 1/2 years. I never pictured myself in law enforcement but found
it to be interesting and challenging. It is a heck of a lot more interesting than
driving. There was no money in the field that I trained in, but I am already
lining up something in that field for after my early retirement next spring.
Fair enough. There are clearly some "over qualified" people in the industry.
I was one when I was working for other companies as a driver before I started
my own business. You sound like another one. Truckinsp. may be another one.


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PirateJohn
2003-09-10 03:32:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Smith
Trucks from the southern US,
especially Texas, have hard time getting past one of our scales because our
experience with them has shown that they tend to be pretty shabby.
And here we have a man that says that you can forget the Mexican trucks, that
Morales' Texas trucks are crap ;)

I thought that we had uniform Federal standards these days?


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Truckinsp
2003-09-10 13:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by PirateJohn
Post by Dave Smith
Trucks from the southern US,
especially Texas, have hard time getting past one of our scales because our
experience with them has shown that they tend to be pretty shabby.
And here we have a man that says that you can forget the Mexican trucks, that
Morales' Texas trucks are crap ;)
I thought that we had uniform Federal standards these days?
We do, but there aren't enough inspectors in TX and David is right, TX trucks
GENERALLY are in poorer quality than the rest of the states,.....TX troopers
are caught in a viscious cycle.....they spend most of their time going to
crashes instead of inspecting trucks that could prevent crashes.....

Unfortunately, crashes are the #1 priority for any trooper.....
Post by PirateJohn
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PirateJohn
2003-09-10 22:19:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
Post by PirateJohn
I thought that we had uniform Federal standards these days?
We do, but there aren't enough inspectors in TX and David is right, TX trucks
GENERALLY are in poorer quality than the rest of the states,.....TX troopers
Do troopers do inspections in Texas? It's been a decade since I operated
there, and my last few trips through Texas have been for pleasure so I really
wasn't paying that much attention.


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PirateJohn
2003-09-10 03:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
OK....so you've been to Mexico, did you actually spend TIME looking at all the
trucks, or just the pretty ones? TX troopers will tell you that in the last
few years, Mexicans have been importing every piece of crap they could get
their hands on in terms of tractors and trailers getting ready for the opening
of the border......and I assume they know since they are the ones actually
WORKING the area....and yes, I HAVE caught MEXICAN trucks outside the corridor,
and most of those trucks were CRAP! I don't think I've ever passed a Mexican
truck that I've caught, and that isn't bigotry, that is fact.
I honestly don't understand this scenerio and invite you to tell me what I'm
overlooking. Or what you're misunderstanding. Or perhaps where we are both
wrong ;)

My observations were that this area (Monterrey, Nuevo Laredo, to some extent
Matamoros and Brownsville, TX) looked pretty prosperous. There was a steady
stream of trucks between Monterrey and Nuevo Laredo and most were 1-3 years
old. Although I took photos of the unusual stuff that we don't see in the USA
(like Scanias) the vast majority were new US spec Kenworths, Freightshakers,
and Volvos.

My understanding is that we don't allow Mexican trucks into the USA. That they
swap trailers at the border. Is there a zone around the border where they are
allowed to operate? I know that private US vehicles can operate in some border
areas without permits (all of North and South Baja, and within about 16 miles
of the border around Nogales) but in Matamoros (Brownsville, TX) the vehicle
importation station is right there at the border. I'm under the impression
that US commercial tractors cannot operate in Mexico at all.

Comments?

As far as the quality of their vehicles, Mexico is like the USA. If you get
off the main roads and into rural areas (read: Copper Canyon or Appalachia --
take your choice) then things are going to get hairy. And you may see some
unusualy rattyl stuff operating locally. But as far as productive, over the
road equipment goes you will encounter modern equipment.

My guess is that if Mexican interests are importing crappy trucks then they are
going to be very disappointed when they try to cross the border. As you said,
they will have to meet US inspection standards.


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PirateJohn
2003-09-10 03:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
OK! Here's one from the former(?) attorney general....
http://www.stp.uh.edu/vol61/951117/3c.html
This is the Texas Attorney General. Honestly, I think that he's acting like
he's running for office. He cites the importation of tar heroin (why that drug
specifically? because it sounds dramatic?) without understanding that the
Mexicans have drug sniffing dogs and basically more drug checkpoints than we
do.

He also cites overweight Mexican trucks without observing that those trucks
would have to be scaled just like any other truck.

There's no date on this article. Honestly, I've seen big changes in Mexico in
five years.

Morales concludes with demanding that Mexican trucks comply with US standards
in order to operate on US highways. Isn't that a given? They are not getting
any slack from what I've seen and from what you are telling me.
Post by Truckinsp
How about this one?
http://www.mexico-info.com/leadstories/chron/trucks.htm
This article is more factual and less emotional. It cites stats of 24% of US
trucks being put out of service following an inspection and 36% of Mexican
trucks being put out of service. The article is five years old. The
difference between 24% and 36% isn't major, we can assume that Mexican trucks
have gotten better in 5 years, and is well under the 100% failure rate for
Mexican trucks that I understand that you are claiming.

This article concludes with drivers being quoted as saying that a lot of the
agitation against Mexican trucks is being stirred up by US unions for
competitive reasons (which I agree with) and that as long as Mexican trucks
meet US standards they should be allowed to operate in the US, which I also
agree with.
Post by Truckinsp
then there is this one....
http://www.corpwatch.org/bulletins/PBD.jsp?articleid=452
This article draws it's comments from Joan Claybrook and Public Citizen, which
has been anti-truck in the USA in general, so it doesn't surprise me a bit that
they are anti-Mexican-truck. They cite that 35-36% out of service statistic
without pointing out that US trucks are out of service at a rate not
significantly less than Mexican trucks. They also cite more relaxed standards
in Mexico without bothering to mention that Mexican trucks would (I presume)
have to meet US standards to operate on US highways.

If you believe Public Citizen they think that all freight needs to go via
railroad anyway, which I'm certain will not sit well with this group ;) [1]

I do see that a 20 mile zone allowing Mexican truck operation in the USA is
somewhat widely discussed in this article. Is that the current practice? As I
mentioned in my other email that seems to vary widely on the Mexican side and I
wasn't aware that US tractors could operate inside Mexico. In Nogales I
remember a holding area at the border and was under the impression that they
were swapping trailers there.


[1] When I was riding toward the border at Brownsville I was amused to be
keeping pace with a CSX freight train from my home town of Jacksonville, FL. I
read recently that a US railroad has purchased one of the big railroads in
Mexico so evidently they will soon have seamless service across the border.
Moral of the story: if there's enough bitchin' about trucks going across the
border it won't matter. The freight will go anyway, it will just cross by
train.


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Truckinsp
2003-09-10 13:26:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by PirateJohn
Post by Truckinsp
OK! Here's one from the former(?) attorney general....
http://www.stp.uh.edu/vol61/951117/3c.html
This is the Texas Attorney General. Honestly, I think that he's acting like
he's running for office. He cites the importation of tar heroin (why that drug
specifically? because it sounds dramatic?) without understanding that the
Mexicans have drug sniffing dogs and basically more drug checkpoints than we
do.
LOLOLOL...sure they do, which is why that stuff is known to be imported into
the US from MX mostly.....
Post by PirateJohn
He also cites overweight Mexican trucks without observing that those trucks
would have to be scaled just like any other truck.
Are you such a fool that you don't know that there are MANY ways around scales
.....
Post by PirateJohn
There's no date on this article. Honestly, I've seen big changes in Mexico in
five years.
I'll accept that statement, because I haven't been in MX personally, but from
what people who HAVE been there say, it ain't that much......my former sgt is
married to a woman from MX and he goes down there twice a year to visit the
in-laws, and his statements DON'T corroberate what you are saying....
Post by PirateJohn
Morales concludes with demanding that Mexican trucks comply with US standards
in order to operate on US highways. Isn't that a given? They are not getting
any slack from what I've seen and from what you are telling me.
There aren't enough inspectors on the border, 1 of 35 trucks gets checked....
Post by PirateJohn
Post by Truckinsp
How about this one?
http://www.mexico-info.com/leadstories/chron/trucks.htm
This article is more factual and less emotional. It cites stats of 24% of US
trucks being put out of service following an inspection and 36% of Mexican
trucks being put out of service. The article is five years old. The
difference between 24% and 36% isn't major,
Oh, Good, then I have a LOT of money I want to exchange with you....I will give
you the 24% and you can give me the 36%......
Post by PirateJohn
we can assume that Mexican trucks
have gotten better in 5 years, and is well under the 100% failure rate for
Mexican trucks that I understand that you are claiming.
Yep, I am.....I have my records that prove that for the trucks I inspect that
have run the 20 mile zone....
Post by PirateJohn
This article concludes with drivers being quoted as saying that a lot of the
agitation against Mexican trucks is being stirred up by US unions for
competitive reasons (which I agree with) and that as long as Mexican trucks
meet US standards they should be allowed to operate in the US, which I also
agree with.
Post by Truckinsp
then there is this one....
http://www.corpwatch.org/bulletins/PBD.jsp?articleid=452
This article draws it's comments from Joan Claybrook and Public Citizen, which
has been anti-truck in the USA in general, so it doesn't surprise me a bit that
they are anti-Mexican-truck. They cite that 35-36% out of service statistic
without pointing out that US trucks are out of service at a rate not
significantly less than Mexican trucks.
WELL, I think an 11% difference rate is pretty significant.....

They also cite more relaxed standards
Post by PirateJohn
in Mexico without bothering to mention that Mexican trucks would (I presume)
have to meet US standards to operate on US highways.
If you believe Public Citizen they think that all freight needs to go via
railroad anyway, which I'm certain will not sit well with this group ;) [1]
I do see that a 20 mile zone allowing Mexican truck operation in the USA is
somewhat widely discussed in this article. Is that the current practice?
Yes, but many of those drivers try to run that 20 mile zone thinking they won't
get caught
Post by PirateJohn
As
I
mentioned in my other email that seems to vary widely on the Mexican side and I
wasn't aware that US tractors could operate inside Mexico. In Nogales I
remember a holding area at the border and was under the impression that they
were swapping trailers there.
[1] When I was riding toward the border at Brownsville I was amused to be
keeping pace with a CSX freight train from my home town of Jacksonville, FL.
I
read recently that a US railroad has purchased one of the big railroads in
Mexico so evidently they will soon have seamless service across the border.
Moral of the story: if there's enough bitchin' about trucks going across the
border it won't matter. The freight will go anyway, it will just cross by
train.
OK....as long as their dangerous trucks AREN'T on US highways...
Post by PirateJohn
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PirateJohn
2003-09-10 22:14:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
Are you such a fool that you don't know that there are MANY ways around scales
Look Bubba, I'm going to try this one more time. If you want to be a fucking
redneck horse's ass then I don't see a lot of reasons to bother asking you any
questions. To put it nicely but firmly, my opinion of you has dropped like a
rock because you would rather pretend to be brighter than the average fish in a
small pond. But from my perspective if you are going to continue to be such a
repulsive jerk then I'll just kill file you and call someone who *really* knows
what they are talking about.

So I'll give you a second chance. This is the last chance.

Yes, I certainly know about running around scales. I don't know where you are
at (my understanding is that you are afraid to reveal that information) but
from what I've seen it's very, very difficult to run around the scales in most
of the border areas that I've been in. They are desert areas and there simply
aren't that many roads. If that's not the case then cite something specific.
I'm trying to make this a learning experience, not a name calling experience.
Post by Truckinsp
Post by PirateJohn
There's no date on this article. Honestly, I've seen big changes in Mexico
in
Post by PirateJohn
five years.
I'll accept that statement, because I haven't been in MX personally, but from
what people who HAVE been there say, it ain't that much......my former sgt is
married to a woman from MX and he goes down there twice a year to visit the
in-laws, and his statements DON'T corroberate what you are saying....
I would be interested in knowing what parts of Mexico he goes to.

This trip to Monterrey looked much more prosperous than when I spent 3 weeks in
the Copper Canyon and Mazatlan areas five years ago. Some things make me think
that the whole country has improved. Monterrey has a Ferrari dealer, for crying
out loud! But I'd like to go back to Mazatlan again and compare.

Mexico's a big country. Just like the USA, you can't judge the entire nation
by looking at bits and pieces.

And I'm trying to form some objective opinions here, too.
Post by Truckinsp
WELL, I think an 11% difference rate is pretty significant.....
We'll just have to agree to disagree, then won't we? ;)



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Truckinsp
2003-09-10 23:17:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by PirateJohn
Post by Truckinsp
Are you such a fool that you don't know that there are MANY ways around scales
Look Bubba,
Bubba? If you can't take it, don't shove it.....get over yourself.....
PirateJohn
2003-09-11 04:39:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
Bubba? If you can't take it, don't shove it.....get over yourself.....
OK Truckinsp ... you clearly don't know what you are writing about and, in
addition to being ignorant, you are a jerk. For all we know you could be Meat
Plow or Bullis in disguise. You've got about the same level of knowledge,
that's for certain.

*plonk*

Have a good evening.


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egpowers
2003-09-12 01:33:36 UTC
Permalink
Say there Bubba, but if you believe the Mexican operations are so
great, I would recommend that you contact the P.O.E Raton, New Mexico
and ask them about the OOS rate for the buses that transport these
Mexican from Denver, Co to various points in Mexico. Because I drive
the stretch of Interstate on a weekly basis, I can tell you that these
buses are more of a joke than Greyhound can ever dream of being.
Hell, a local independent newspaper did an article on them a year
back. The opinion of all involved, stay the hell away. 1 in 5 of
these buses is shut down for mechanical failures in direct violation
of the FMCSR.
Post by PirateJohn
Post by Truckinsp
So now let me get this straight, just because YOU'VE seen a couple of pretty
trucks, you know it all, whereas I who have access to the records and inspect
trucks all day can't tell beans....hmmmm
Bubba, I spent 4 days motorcycling around that area, chatting with the drivers
and bus operators, and getting to know the people. And that's on top of 5 years
worth of trips into Mexico. And I've spent about a decade as a driver and owner
of my own company.
And Bubba ... I was there partially on a pleasure trip but also making business
contacts. So don't give me this crap about 'watching a few trucks.' I think
that, based on this trip, we've put together an order at a plant being
constructed in the DF that will keep another plant in Newh Yawk running for
several more weeks. I'm trying to expand one company's market into Mexico
right now and taking a hard look at importing another commodity from Mexico for
another venture.
No, I don't know it all. And you clearly don't either. Without being rude,
I'm willing to stipulate that you are an expert when it comes to crawling
around on urine smelling asphalt to inspect the underside of a greasy truck,
but when it comes to truck driving skills, boat loading skills, a degree in
accounting and plenty of high level professional work, many years as a network
geek, an accomplished background as a motorcyclist, entrepreneur, business
manager, traveler, and general all around fun person to be around, then I kick
your ass. And I mean that in a nice way.
So when you get your butt off of your crawler and out from underneath that
truck you can talk to me on my terms.
I'm willing to meet you half way but as I said, based on my recent trip to
Monterrey, and that's on top of about 5 years of annual trips to various
Mexican cities, the current quality of the trucks meets US standards from where
I sit.
If you know something specific then be more specific. Hell, educate us! But
you aren't going to make your point with me by telling half truths, untruths,
showing bigotry against Mexican nationals, nor by making unsubstantiated smart
assed wisecracks.
My photos of this trip are at
http://www.fototime.com/inv/66CFE831BC0A959
There are a handful of truck photos, bunches of street scenes, and two photos
at dealerships. I'll let the people reading this group decide for themselves.
Oh, Mexico is still definitely a 2nd World country. But it's rapidly emerging
from 3rd World status. And compared to Europe, I'd say that the transport
industry in the USA is at 2nd World status anyway, so there's more parity
between the USA and Mexico than most people realize.
I await your comments as long as they are civil and educational. Because you
aren't the dumbest person that writes into this newsgroup by any stretch of the
imagination. If you have constructive business-like comments to make about
trade and truckin' across the Mexican border I'd like to hear it.
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PirateJohn
2003-09-12 04:31:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by egpowers
Say there Bubba, but if you believe the Mexican operations are so
great, I would recommend that you contact the P.O.E Raton, New Mexico
and ask them about the OOS rate for the buses that transport these
Mexican from Denver, Co to various points in Mexico. Because I drive
the stretch of Interstate on a weekly basis, I can tell you that these
buses are more of a joke than Greyhound can ever dream of being.
Hell, a local independent newspaper did an article on them a year
back. The opinion of all involved, stay the hell away. 1 in 5 of
these buses is shut down for mechanical failures in direct violation
of the FMCSR.
Well Bubba ... ;)

I think that Mexican operations are "great" (not the word that I was using but
I'll go with it) in the sense that Mexico is a Third World country coming into
the Second World very quickly. Lots of good people. And I made the point that
their over the road *trucks* certainly look like they should be given a chance.

Buses ... hmmm ...

I'm sure that you are aware that MCI is owned by Mexican interests, right? And
that as I write this the scuttlebutt is that Mexican interests are likely to
buy Greyhound. I've heard that a Mexican company bought the tooling from the
Eagle plant in Brownsville and they we manufacturing the old Flexble buses from
the 60's until fairly recently.

So in that sense Mexican buses have been in the USA for years.

My photos of the trip a few weeks ago at

http://www.fototime.com/inv/66CFE831BC0A959

have some current bus photos. I've also got a collection at

http://www.fototime.com/inv/CBE25F7B821D566

of some of the buses that I saw in Mazatlan 5 years ago.

Clearly, for people who don't know any better (and I don't know you well enough
to know where you stand -- it's not a dig, it's just a fact) people who think
that all Mexican buses are converted school buses and full of chickens are off
base. They *do* have some really nasty old buses in rural areas, but the buses
going from city to city tend to be very new and modern. Scania/Marco Polo
chassis with Thema retarders ... nice stuff. Neoplans are also popular. Some
Spanish buses that are just beginning to be sold here. I don't know my buses
*that* well but have looked into doing a bus conversion into an RV so I can at
least recognize most of the models. At any rate Mexico likely operates a
better scheduled intracity bus service than we do in the USA.

With that said and done I don't have a clue about the Mexican buses that are
running between Raton, NM and Denver, CO.

For one thing, that's awfully far away from the Mexican border. Is this a
regularly scheduled service?

If you have photos or something more specific I'd be interested in seeing them.
The truck issue was for business; the bus issue is just a matter of curiosity.

I have seen Mexican bands in some ratty buses and I guess it's *possible* that
someone could be chartering ratty Mexican buses but the idea of a regularly
scheduled bus from Mexico running that route simply surprises me.




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Keeper of the Humour List at http://members.aol.com/PirateJohn/pirate1.html

"Mother, mother ocean... I have heard your call" - Jimmy Buffett, A Pirate
Looks At Forty.
Hdlinnebur
2003-09-13 21:03:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by PirateJohn
Post by Truckinsp
Baloney!!! Go down to one of the border crossings and watch.
Let me get this straight. You're going to tell me that I was wrong, when I was
there and have the photos to prove it?
You need to be more accurate with your observations, pal. Where and when were
you inspecting those vehicles?
You and I both know that to operate on US highways any vehicle has to meet US
standards. You may have seen local vehicles delivering to a holding area on
the border that weren't in good shape. The steady stream of tractors that I
saw between Monterrey and Nuevo Laredo, most of them pulling US trailers, were
generally in as good a condition as anything that you will see in the USA.
I took a little tour of the Texas border area about a year and a half ago.
After travelling from Laredo to Corpus Christi you can't tell me those Mexican
trucks meet US standards.

Someone is being told to look the other way unless otherwise notified down
there on the Texas border.
Dave Smith
2003-09-08 14:57:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Kelly
Post by Janet
The drivers drive solo. They tell me that when they are an hour or 2 from
home, they are not going to stop and sleep in the truck, they want to get
home and sleep in their own bed, which I understand, but which is illegal.
That's why a log book is also known as a "comic book." Even DOT
officers have been known to call it a comic book.
We call it a comic book because drivers violate the hours of work regulations?
Not true. We call it that because so many drivers lie when they record their
hours. That is why we look at supporting documents. That is why we have facility
auditors to go into terminals and check all the paperwork, matching the times and
locations to the drivers' logs.
Post by John Kelly
Tell the drivers to submit logs without violations, and don't ask how
they actually drove the trip. That is of course, assuming there is no
paper trail like toll receipts with timestamps, or a qualcomm location
tracking system, which might contradict their log.
Post by Janet
Any way around this?
Not as long as bureaucrats and lawyers write rules about a job they
have never done themselves.
The bureaucrats and lawyers do not make up the regulations on a whim. They are
formulated and enacted after input from a variety of sources, including trucking
companies and their lobby groups.

Your advice ranks right up there with Bullis. Rather than helping the OP deal
with the compliance problem, you have given her idiotic advice which is much more
likely to get her into big time trouble than to correct the situation.
John Kelly
2003-09-08 15:57:48 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:57:58 -0400, Dave Smith
Post by Dave Smith
The bureaucrats and lawyers do not make up the regulations on a whim. They are
formulated and enacted after input from a variety of sources, including trucking
companies and their lobby groups.
And none of those sources do the work of delivering the loads day in
and day out. They don't have the experience to understand what they
are trying to regulate.
Post by Dave Smith
Your advice ranks right up there with Bullis. Rather than helping the OP deal
with the compliance problem, you have given her idiotic advice which is much more
likely to get her into big time trouble than to correct the situation.
As long as all paperwork is in compliance, so that it can pass an
audit, there will be no trouble. That includes toll receipts, fuel
stops, mileage, etc.

In an imperfect world managed by bureaucrats and lawyers, paperwork
compliance is the best you can hope to achieve. Expecting more is
just wishful thinking.
Truckinsp
2003-09-08 16:16:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Kelly
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:57:58 -0400, Dave Smith
Post by Dave Smith
The bureaucrats and lawyers do not make up the regulations on a whim. They
are
Post by Dave Smith
formulated and enacted after input from a variety of sources, including
trucking
Post by Dave Smith
companies and their lobby groups.
And none of those sources do the work of delivering the loads day in
and day out. They don't have the experience to understand what they
are trying to regulate.
BS....we go to enough crashes to see the damage "smart" guys like you do...

You really aren't that dumb to think that a regulator has to DO the job to
understand it are you? I guess that means you wouldn't hire an attorney to
defend you unless he had done the crime you did.....

I guess BOOKS have no meaning for you either......how in the world could you
understand what the author is trying to say if you've never done it.....
Post by John Kelly
Post by Dave Smith
Your advice ranks right up there with Bullis. Rather than helping the OP
deal
Post by Dave Smith
with the compliance problem, you have given her idiotic advice which is much
more
Post by Dave Smith
likely to get her into big time trouble than to correct the situation.
As long as all paperwork is in compliance, so that it can pass an
audit, there will be no trouble. That includes toll receipts, fuel
stops, mileage, etc.
Trouble is, you "smart" truck drivers who play with your logs don't have a CLUE
what a Compliance Review is like....but companies who tolerate "smart" guys
like you find out the hard way.....
Post by John Kelly
In an imperfect world managed by bureaucrats and lawyers, paperwork
compliance is the best you can hope to achieve. Expecting more is
just wishful thinking.
I'd hate to see the world YOU'D design....
Hdlinnebur
2003-09-13 21:13:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truckinsp
Post by John Kelly
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:57:58 -0400, Dave Smith
Post by Dave Smith
The bureaucrats and lawyers do not make up the regulations on a whim. They
are
Post by Dave Smith
formulated and enacted after input from a variety of sources, including
trucking
Post by Dave Smith
companies and their lobby groups.
And none of those sources do the work of delivering the loads day in
and day out. They don't have the experience to understand what they
are trying to regulate.
BS....we go to enough crashes to see the damage "smart" guys like you do...
(rest snipped)

Statistically those "smart" guys you are referring too must be driving four
wheelers.

Janet
2003-09-08 16:31:14 UTC
Permalink
We pay by the hour (including overtime), and we pay according to the log
book. So, we do not encourage falsifying logs, of course. Our goal is to
be 100% in compliance and to keep 100% accurate records. Its a tall order.

Janet
Post by Dave Smith
Post by John Kelly
Tell the drivers to submit logs without violations, and don't ask how
they actually drove the trip. That is of course, assuming there is no
paper trail like toll receipts with timestamps, or a qualcomm location
tracking system, which might contradict their log.
Post by Janet
Any way around this?
Not as long as bureaucrats and lawyers write rules about a job they
have never done themselves.
The bureaucrats and lawyers do not make up the regulations on a whim. They are
formulated and enacted after input from a variety of sources, including trucking
companies and their lobby groups.
Your advice ranks right up there with Bullis. Rather than helping the OP deal
with the compliance problem, you have given her idiotic advice which is much more
likely to get her into big time trouble than to correct the situation.
John Kelly
2003-09-08 16:57:11 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:31:14 GMT, "Janet"
Post by Janet
We pay by the hour (including overtime), and we pay according to the log
book. So, we do not encourage falsifying logs, of course. Our goal is to
be 100% in compliance and to keep 100% accurate records. Its a tall order.
Well if you are saying that you accept drivers log books as a time
card for purposes of pay, then you don't have to worry about
conflicting time card records.
Post by Janet
YOU may not get a timed receipt for your fuel, but stations DO time the
fuel stops and your company DOES have that
Since the time of a fuel stop can be audited, the log needs to match
the actual time within 15 or 30 minutes. And since drivers generally
fuel no more than once per day, most any driver should be able to cope
with that requirement.

And watch out for toll receipts, or any other paper trail which might
contradict a driver's log.
Truckinsp
2003-09-08 17:55:43 UTC
Permalink
Well, if "Janet" follows your advice, her company deserves what it gets.....I
certainly hope she's smarter than that....but you never know....
Post by John Kelly
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:31:14 GMT, "Janet"
Post by Janet
We pay by the hour (including overtime), and we pay according to the log
book. So, we do not encourage falsifying logs, of course. Our goal is to
be 100% in compliance and to keep 100% accurate records. Its a tall order.
Well if you are saying that you accept drivers log books as a time
card for purposes of pay, then you don't have to worry about
conflicting time card records.
Post by Janet
YOU may not get a timed receipt for your fuel, but stations DO time the
fuel stops and your company DOES have that
Since the time of a fuel stop can be audited, the log needs to match
the actual time within 15 or 30 minutes. And since drivers generally
fuel no more than once per day, most any driver should be able to cope
with that requirement.
And watch out for toll receipts, or any other paper trail which might
contradict a driver's log.
Janet
2003-09-09 01:03:37 UTC
Permalink
Yes, we can verify times with the EZ-passes that are used to pay tolls on
the New York State thruway. They record the time on the bills.

Janet
Post by John Kelly
And watch out for toll receipts, or any other paper trail which might
contradict a driver's log.
karen47
2003-09-10 01:11:31 UTC
Permalink
(1) Get a loose-leaf Log Book
(2) Log normal to customer.
(3) Remove and dispose of the page safely.
(4) RE-do page to show you started and arrived 7 hours earlier.
(5) log 8 hours on line #2 (sleeper)
(6) log 12 hours on line #3 (driving)
(7) log 2 hours on line #4 (working) , so you get 14 hours pay and the
records match.
(8) ReFuel only on return trip so times match


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Al Murphy
2003-09-10 02:56:08 UTC
Permalink
***@yahoo.com (karen47) wrote

(1) Get a loose-leaf Log Book
(2) Log normal to customer.
(3) Remove and dispose of the page safely.
(4) RE-do page to show you started and arrived 7 hours earlier.
(5) log 8 hours on line #2 (sleeper)
(6) log 12 hours on line #3 (driving)
(7) log 2 hours on line #4 (working) , so you get 14 hours pay and the
=A0=A0=A0=A0records match.
(8) ReFuel only on return trip so times match

Janet,
If you follow this advice, add the following steps:

(9) pack up your bags and possesions
(10) March down to your local jail
(11) Find yourself a comfortable cell
(12) with your one phone call, call yourself a good lawyer


you might as well do this, because the DOT is gonna nail your butt and
your companies but to the wall
Truckinsp
2003-09-10 03:26:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by karen47
(1) Get a loose-leaf Log Book
(2) Log normal to customer.
(3) Remove and dispose of the page safely.
(4) RE-do page to show you started and arrived 7 hours earlier.
(5) log 8 hours on line #2 (sleeper)
(6) log 12 hours on line #3 (driving)
(7) log 2 hours on line #4 (working) , so you get 14 hours pay and the
=A0=A0=A0=A0records match.
(8) ReFuel only on return trip so times match
Janet,
(9) pack up your bags and possesions
(10) March down to your local jail
(11) Find yourself a comfortable cell
(12) with your one phone call, call yourself a good lawyer
you might as well do this, because the DOT is gonna nail your butt and
your companies but to the wall
Couldn't have said it better!!!
karen47
2003-09-10 11:58:43 UTC
Permalink
So Janet, How are they doing it now?

I would be better for the driver to get home to sleep and I bet they do.
There must be some type of creative logging. It's a 13 hour run and you
only have 10 hours.


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Richard
2003-09-08 05:27:31 UTC
Permalink
Janet wrote:>>
Post by Janet
I work for a packaging company in upstate New York in Human Resources.
Due to the voluntary quit of our senior driver, overseeing the drivers
has fallen upon my shoulders.
I have been given the directive by our President to make sure that our
drivers are driving legal in regards to hours of service, log books,
maintenance schedules, brake checks, etc. I've read through plenty of
literature and have learned much about the topic, but still have a lot to
learn.
My question is: how does one drive a 6 hour trip legally? We deliver
every week to a major chocolate manufacturer in Reading Pennsylvania.
The drivers tend to drive the 6 hours, sleep for 2 hours in the sleeper
berth while they are being unloading, etc., then they turn around and
drive the 6 hours back, which of course is over the 10 hour limit.
The drivers drive solo. They tell me that when they are an hour or 2
from home, they are not going to stop and sleep in the truck, they want
to get home and sleep in their own bed, which I understand, but which is
illegal.
What is the best way to handle this situation? Any way around this?
Thanks for your replies.
Janet
You need to lay down the law on the drivers then. The other person doing the
job was letting that slip by which could cause the company severe pain in
the bank account if they are audited.
If they're showing it that way on their logs, screw them big time and shut
them down.
Just because they want to be home every night isn't good enough.
To be legal, they'd have to sleep the full 8 hours between rides.
But if your company is pushing them to make deliveries every day, then they
are totally wrong and they need to understand that it could cost them
$10,000 for one log book violation.
Not to mention the fact that the driver will be fined as well.
What you need to do is to have a chat with the employer, the owner, and
advise him/her that you're not gonna be held responsible for company policy
or what the drivers do.
Now if the driver's can show the trip as 5 hours one way, have them do so.
Let's say it's 300 miles one way, but the speed limit is 65mph.
You can legally show this as 5 hours.
All of my driving time on an interstate is based upon the speed limit of the
interstate.
If it's 65, I log it as 65.
You need to make sure the drivers understand that a violation will cost
them, not you.
If they get caught, they get shut down and if they're only 15 minutes from
home, tough shit.
And they're doing this every day? Not good at all.
So what's wrong with sleeping in the truck?
Assuming the trucks have sleepers, if they don't, you may have to fork over
a motel room.
Wavking
2003-09-08 11:23:51 UTC
Permalink
Here's how to do it legally:

Start Monday at 6 am
drive 6 hours, Delliver at noon
2 hours at consignee, drive 4 hours back
Take 8 hour break 120 miles from home

Tuesday
Wake up at 4am, drive to pick up point, load, drive 6 hours to unload at
same time
Drive 2 hours back and break at 4 pm

Wednesday
Get up at midnight. Drive 4 hours, load, 6 hours to delivery and break there
at noon

Thursday
Start at 8 pm, drive to shipper, load and drive to within 2 hours of
delivery (6 am)

Friday
Get up at 2pm--Past regular delivery time
Deliver at 4 PM, leave at 6 pm and drive 6 hours home for weekend at
midnight.
tscottme
2003-09-08 11:53:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
I work for a packaging company in upstate New York in Human Resources.
Due
Post by Janet
to the voluntary quit of our senior driver, overseeing the drivers has
fallen upon my shoulders.
I have been given the directive by our President to make sure that our
drivers are driving legal in regards to hours of service, log books,
maintenance schedules, brake checks, etc. I've read through plenty of
literature and have learned much about the topic, but still have a lot to
learn.
My question is: how does one drive a 6 hour trip legally? We deliver every
week to a major chocolate manufacturer in Reading Pennsylvania. The drivers
tend to drive the 6 hours, sleep for 2 hours in the sleeper berth while they
are being unloading, etc., then they turn around and drive the 6 hours back,
which of course is over the 10 hour limit.
The drivers drive solo. They tell me that when they are an hour or 2 from
home, they are not going to stop and sleep in the truck, they want to get
home and sleep in their own bed, which I understand, but which is illegal.
What is the best way to handle this situation? Any way around this?
Thanks for your replies.
Janet
Janet you might check out the log book program available at
www.driversdailylog.com. The program will show violations of the
current and the new rules (after Jan 4,2004). I think you get a 30 day
free trial and after that it costs $70. The program is accurate and
approved for use. You can track multiple drivers and it keeps track of
the various legal limits, it will show you violations.

I'm probably the last person on Earth to be qualified to offer personnel
advice, but what the heck. I would give written notice to the current
and any future drivers that you have been designated to monitor Hours of
Service compliance for your company. That drivers are required to know
the appropriate regulations and those regulations will be the final
judge of what is and isn't a violation. Indicate that your company will
be held responsible for assuring that employees comply with the HOS and
therefore the HOS must be followed. If you want to be a good sport,
verbally suggest that in a very short time (maybe a day or two) "this is
how we always did it before" will not be an excuse.

If current drivers start to BS you with "but the regs say this" have
them show you in the regs where it says what they suggest. The regs can
be understood and the log book program knows the regs as well as anyone.
There are very few circumstances where you could legally drive a12 hour
round trip with only a 2 hour break. Wavking's reply looks like one way
to do it, but it assumes ultimate flexibility of start and end times,
which may not be the case for your drivers.

As you might guess, if your company doesn't try its best to force their
employees to comply with the HOS it can be quite expensive. I'm not
sure if your company just wants "legal" log pages or genuine compliance.
I would suggest that if you will have this responsibility for some time,
the best time to crack the whip is at the start, not after everyone gets
comfortable with ignoring the rules.

--

Scott
--------
"the Arabs should remember that they invaded and occupied important
parts of Europe hundreds of years before the Crusades wars. "
Zuheir Abdallah-columnist for the London-based Arabic daily Al-Hayat
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD55103
Janet
2003-09-08 16:25:34 UTC
Permalink
This is good advice, along with many others. Thanks Scott!

Janet
Post by tscottme
Janet you might check out the log book program available at
www.driversdailylog.com. The program will show violations of the
current and the new rules (after Jan 4,2004). I think you get a 30 day
free trial and after that it costs $70. The program is accurate and
approved for use. You can track multiple drivers and it keeps track of
the various legal limits, it will show you violations.
I'm probably the last person on Earth to be qualified to offer personnel
advice, but what the heck. I would give written notice to the current
and any future drivers that you have been designated to monitor Hours of
Service compliance for your company. That drivers are required to know
the appropriate regulations and those regulations will be the final
judge of what is and isn't a violation. Indicate that your company will
be held responsible for assuring that employees comply with the HOS and
therefore the HOS must be followed. If you want to be a good sport,
verbally suggest that in a very short time (maybe a day or two) "this is
how we always did it before" will not be an excuse.
If current drivers start to BS you with "but the regs say this" have
them show you in the regs where it says what they suggest. The regs can
be understood and the log book program knows the regs as well as anyone.
There are very few circumstances where you could legally drive a12 hour
round trip with only a 2 hour break. Wavking's reply looks like one way
to do it, but it assumes ultimate flexibility of start and end times,
which may not be the case for your drivers.
As you might guess, if your company doesn't try its best to force their
employees to comply with the HOS it can be quite expensive. I'm not
sure if your company just wants "legal" log pages or genuine compliance.
I would suggest that if you will have this responsibility for some time,
the best time to crack the whip is at the start, not after everyone gets
comfortable with ignoring the rules.
--
Scott
--------
"the Arabs should remember that they invaded and occupied important
parts of Europe hundreds of years before the Crusades wars. "
Zuheir Abdallah-columnist for the London-based Arabic daily Al-Hayat
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD55103
Kato26
2003-09-08 12:16:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
I work for a packaging company in upstate New York in Human Resources. Due
to the voluntary quit of our senior driver, overseeing the drivers has
fallen upon my shoulders.
I have been given the directive by our President to make sure that our
drivers are driving legal in regards to hours of service, log books,
maintenance schedules, brake checks, etc. I've read through plenty of
literature and have learned much about the topic, but still have a lot to
learn.
My question is: how does one drive a 6 hour trip legally? We deliver every
week to a major chocolate manufacturer in Reading Pennsylvania. The drivers
tend to drive the 6 hours, sleep for 2 hours in the sleeper berth while they
are being unloading, etc., then they turn around and drive the 6 hours back,
which of course is over the 10 hour limit.
The drivers drive solo. They tell me that when they are an hour or 2 from
home, they are not going to stop and sleep in the truck, they want to get
home and sleep in their own bed, which I understand, but which is illegal.
What is the best way to handle this situation? Any way around this?
Thanks for your replies.
Janet
This is deinitely NOT legal, and the liability in the case of an accident
during those 2-illegal hours is HUGE-regardless of fault!
Since you picked it up right away, it seems they are not even hiding it, which
leaves the company open, as well as the driver.

If they can do it in 11 hours driving time, then come Jan. 3-it will be legal;
until then they should be taking another 6 hours in the sleeper somewhere along
the way.

Nip it in the bud.
Janet
2003-09-08 16:26:43 UTC
Permalink
Don't they have to sleep 10 hours after 11 hours of driving after January
2004?

Janet
Post by Kato26
If they can do it in 11 hours driving time, then come Jan. 3-it will be legal;
until then they should be taking another 6 hours in the sleeper somewhere along
the way.
Nip it in the bud.
Dave Smith
2003-09-08 12:52:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
I work for a packaging company in upstate New York in Human Resources. Due
to the voluntary quit of our senior driver, overseeing the drivers has
fallen upon my shoulders.
I have been given the directive by our President to make sure that our
drivers are driving legal in regards to hours of service, log books,
maintenance schedules, brake checks, etc. I've read through plenty of
literature and have learned much about the topic, but still have a lot to
learn.
My question is: how does one drive a 6 hour trip legally? We deliver every
week to a major chocolate manufacturer in Reading Pennsylvania. The drivers
tend to drive the 6 hours, sleep for 2 hours in the sleeper berth while they
are being unloading, etc., then they turn around and drive the 6 hours back,
which of course is over the 10 hour limit.
The drivers drive solo. They tell me that when they are an hour or 2 from
home, they are not going to stop and sleep in the truck, they want to get
home and sleep in their own bed, which I understand, but which is illegal.
What is the best way to handle this situation? Any way around this?
Thanks for your replies.
It is about time that you started to enforce hours of work with company policy.
You are required by law to get copies of the drivers' logs and to keep them on
file for a period of time. You need to review those logs and make sure that
drivers are not exceeding their driving and on duty times. If/when the company
faces a DOT facility audit, it will be facing big time fines for those
violations. The company can use a due diligence argument if it demonstrates that
drivers have faced disciplinary action for those violations.
Janet
2003-09-08 16:27:34 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the great advice Dave.

Janet
Post by Dave Smith
It is about time that you started to enforce hours of work with company policy.
You are required by law to get copies of the drivers' logs and to keep them on
file for a period of time. You need to review those logs and make sure that
drivers are not exceeding their driving and on duty times. If/when the company
faces a DOT facility audit, it will be facing big time fines for those
violations. The company can use a due diligence argument if it
demonstrates that
Post by Dave Smith
drivers have faced disciplinary action for those violations.
karen47
2003-09-09 08:58:09 UTC
Permalink
Janet, I am a trainer and teaching proper logging techniques is part of
my job. My first question, is it more than 590 miles round trip? If your
company allows drivers to your driver to log at 58 MPH or better they
should be ok. Second , do the trucks actually have sleeper births?
Sounds like a day-cab job! Third, are they paid by the mile or the hour?


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Janet
2003-09-09 11:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Not sure about the mileage. I'll let you know. Why do you say they should
be ok if they go 58 MPH or better? Yes, the OTR truck has a very nice
sleeper berth. They are paid by the hour.

Janet
Post by karen47
Janet, I am a trainer and teaching proper logging techniques is part of
my job. My first question, is it more than 590 miles round trip? If your
company allows drivers to your driver to log at 58 MPH or better they
should be ok. Second , do the trucks actually have sleeper births?
Sounds like a day-cab job! Third, are they paid by the mile or the hour?
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karen47
2003-09-09 12:33:17 UTC
Permalink
OTR drivers. Get paid by the mile and don't usually go by clock hours.
They devide the speed limit into the actual trip mileage to determine
hours logged. Actually you can't use all 10 hours because they will have
to log at least half a hour on line 4 for unloading and inspections.
They get paid the hour do they get paid for time logged on lines 1,2 and
4 while out? Sounds like they are logging 13 hours on lines 3+4. They
need to take a 8 hour break on line 2 or drive team. Pennsylvania
doesn't have many open weigh stations and small companies are rarely
audited by the DOT. Your luck may still run out. Remember that
maintaining a legal log is the responsibility of the indivual drivers
not the company or its management. Drivers are real easy to replace
today! On the bright side the New Rules will all 12 hours but requires a
10 hour break. Good luck!


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Truckinsp
2003-09-09 13:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by karen47
OTR drivers. Get paid by the mile and don't usually go by clock hours.
They devide the speed limit into the actual trip mileage to determine
hours logged. Actually you can't use all 10 hours because they will have
to log at least half a hour on line 4 for unloading and inspections.
They get paid the hour do they get paid for time logged on lines 1,2 and
4 while out? Sounds like they are logging 13 hours on lines 3+4. They
need to take a 8 hour break on line 2 or drive team. Pennsylvania
doesn't have many open weigh stations and small companies are rarely
audited by the DOT.
Wrong, look at that link I provided, MOST of those companies are smaller
companies.....I do MOST of my CRS on smaller companies

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safetyprogs/reports/default.htm

Your luck may still run out. Remember that
Post by karen47
maintaining a legal log is the responsibility of the indivual drivers
not the company or its management.
Again, VERY WRONG.....look at the fines on that link I provided, the company is
held responsible for the actions of its drivers....and the Feds say so VERY
specifically....look at the interpretations to 395.3
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rulesregs/fmcsr/regs/interp395.3.htm

In case you can't find them:

Question 7: What is the liability of a motor carrier for hours of service
violations?

Guidance: The carrier is liable for violations of the hours of service
regulations if it had or should have had the means by which to detect the
violations. Liability under the FMCSRs does not depend upon actual knowledge of
the violations.

Question 8: Are carriers liable for the actions of their employees even though
the carrier contends that it did not require or permit the violations to occur?

Guidance: Yes. Carriers are liable for the actions of their employees. Neither
intent to commit, nor actual knowledge of, a violation is a necessary element
of that liability. Carriers "permit" violations of the hours of service
regulations by their employees if they fail to have in place management systems
that effectively prevent such violations.

Drivers are real easy to replace
Post by karen47
today! On the bright side the New Rules will all 12 hours but requires a
10 hour break. Good luck!
WRONG AGAIN....here's a quick explanation of the new HOS rules:
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/Home_Files/hos/cards5.htm
Al Murphy
2003-09-10 02:38:20 UTC
Permalink
Come on Truckinsp, don't blow a blood vessel over these answers,
Bullis's sister Karen doesn't know what the fuck she's talking about
either
Truckinsp
2003-09-09 14:25:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by karen47
OTR drivers. Get paid by the mile and don't usually go by clock hours.
They devide the speed limit into the actual trip mileage to determine
hours logged.
CRAP, I almost missed this one.....what she is telling you is to falsify your
logs...the regs require that the driver record what he does
correctly......according to the clock, not according to miles driven......
Truckinsp
2003-09-09 14:10:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
I work for a packaging company in upstate New York in Human Resources. Due
to the voluntary quit of our senior driver, overseeing the drivers has
fallen upon my shoulders.
I have been given the directive by our President to make sure that our
drivers are driving legal in regards to hours of service, log books,
maintenance schedules, brake checks, etc. I've read through plenty of
literature and have learned much about the topic, but still have a lot to
learn.
My question is: how does one drive a 6 hour trip legally? We deliver every
week to a major chocolate manufacturer in Reading Pennsylvania. The drivers
tend to drive the 6 hours, sleep for 2 hours in the sleeper berth while they
are being unloading, etc., then they turn around and drive the 6 hours back,
which of course is over the 10 hour limit.
The drivers drive solo. They tell me that when they are an hour or 2 from
home, they are not going to stop and sleep in the truck, they want to get
home and sleep in their own bed, which I understand, but which is illegal.
What is the best way to handle this situation? Any way around this?
Thanks for your replies.
Janet
Janet, get a copy of the 49 CFR regulations and follow them rigorously, if you
try to "beat" the system you will eventually be caught. If you are having any
trouble understanding the regs, call the MCSAP person in your state....if you
don't have the number, I can find it for you.

If you follow the regs rigorously, it has a number of benefits, first you won't
get stopped at scales as much, your safety rating will improve and your
insurance costs will go down.

As an inspector who also does safety audits and compliance reviews, I LOOK for
those companies who are always trying to "work the system"....they aren't the
companies that are safe on the highways.....on the other hand, those companies
who show me that they can do it right, I tend to leave alone because they are
the types of companies that all of us WANT on the highways!!

Talking to truck drivers isn't always the best way to get valid
information....drivers only see one side of the picture, and you need to see
the whole thing! Again, if you need the number to your state MCSAP office,
just ask!
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